The Couch Next Door
Happy Hour meets Therapy on The Couch Next Door. Each episode blends real conversations, laughter, and a touch of courage as we dive into life’s messy, beautiful, and downright unpredictable moments. From relationships and mental health to personal growth and everything in between, we’re here to keep it real, relatable, and refreshingly honest. Each episode is hosted by Candice Fraser, a licensed professional counselor with a distinctive approach to therapy and a mission to inspire and equip her audience through compelling stories and conversations within the mental health landscape. Candice's couch is a comfortable place to learn how to care for ourselves and those around us well. Come hang out!
The Couch Next Door
Work Ethos: Rethinking Burnout, Passion, & Team Dynamics (with Marty Munger & Kasey Brennan)
In this engaging conversation our dear friend Marty Munger and NEW friend Kasey Brennan of WORK ETHOS discuss the intersection of work life, mental health, and team dynamics. They explore the importance of understanding individual strengths and weaknesses within a team, the role of passion in career satisfaction, and the impact of workplace stress on mental health. The discussion also highlights the upcoming launch of their podcast, Work Intelligently, which aims to delve deeper into these topics and provide valuable insights for listeners. Leveraging differences among team members can lead to greater success and the Coaches at Work Ethos can help you with this! As a therapist I’m constantly hearing about work burnout so Marty and Kasey address how identifying personal work values and strengths can help prevent burnout. We also cover self care in the workplace and a strategy you don’t want to miss! And because we LOVE the Enneagram at The Couch Next Door and Marty and Kasey are both Enneagram Coaches, you know we had to sprinkle some into our conversation!
Work Ethos website (Sign up for their newsletter and take their assessments!)
Work Ethos on Instagram: @theworkethos
Marty on Tik Tok: @coachmarty_workethos
SNAP (self care strategy): Stop, Notice, Assess, Pivot
The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer
Soundtracks: The Surprising Solution to Overthinking by Jon Acuff
Marty's Episodes on The Couch Next Door:
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Work Ethos: Take their assessments and sign up for their newsletter on their website
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Find me on Substack: candice512.substack.com
Hi there. Welcome to the Couch Next Door, where a happy hour week therapy session. I'm your host, Candace Preacher, a licensed professional counselor. Each week, I'm honored to have a friend on my couch, and we'll dive into an area that's helpful that impacting their food. Definitely laugh, probably cry, and maybe go on a rant or two, because we are all humans, full of emotions. Come take out with us. Marty Munger, you might be remembered Marty from the Inea season, and our new friend Casey Brennan. They're both Enneagram coaches and co-creators of the upcoming podcast, Work Intelligently, and co-founders of the company Work Ethos. Casey is the chief executive officer and lead consultant at Work Ethos, where she helps leaders and teams align purpose with performance so they can grow sustainably and thrive. She's also, y'all, an Emmy Award-winning producer specializing in documentaries that highlight stories of transformation and resilience. Drawing on years of experience in leadership, storytelling, and coaching, Casey is passionate about building cultures of clarity and collaboration and equipping visionary leaders to find freedom from burnout and lead with purpose. We all remember our favorite Enneagram coach, Marty Munger, from the Enea Season. Marty is the chief relationship officer and co-founder of Work Ethos. Marty draws on her background and self-awareness tools to help leaders and teams ditch disconnection, both from themselves and each other. Her work centers around creating cultures of connection, clarity, and contribution. In this episode, we explore how understanding individual strengths, values, and even weaknesses can completely transform how we show up at work and how we support others. From recognizing the role of passion and career satisfaction to identifying the root causes of burnout, Marty and Casey offer insights that are both eye-opening and actionable. As a therapist, I hear about work burnout constantly. And work is such a common topic that is discussed in the therapy room. That's why I loved digging into how self-awareness, especially around your personal work values, can help prevent burnout before it starts. We talk about self-care in the workplace and even share a practical strategy that you do not want to miss. We also get into the power of workplace assessments, specifically the assessments that work ethos has created to pinpoint what energizes you and what drains you. Because when people feel seen at work, communication improves, empathy grows, and teams thrive. So check out the show notes so you can take their assessments. They're incredible. And yes, of course, we could not resist a little Enneagram detour, but trust me, it ties in beautifully with our main theme: building more intentional, human-centered workplaces. Because when you really know your team, you unlock better communication, greater collaboration, and a healthier culture. Whether you're a leader, a teammate, or someone just trying to make work feel more meaningful, this episode is for you. And me as a solo business owner, I also found this conversation so helpful because there's definite environments where I'm having to work with other people and recognizing my strengths and the things that train me. All right, y'all. Here is my conversation with Marty and Casey.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, I am so excited. We have Marty Munger. Remember Marty, she was our Enneagram coach, the podcast Enneagram coach. She is back with her friend Casey Brennan, and we are here to talk about work life and mental health, and it's gonna be a really good conversation. So welcome to the couch next door. Welcome back, Marty. Welcome, Casey. I'm so excited to have you on. Um who wants to start like introducing themselves and just giving a little bit of a background? Or Marty, you can give us an update on what life has been like for you the last year and a half.
SPEAKER_05:So who wants to start? I can kind of start and then Casey, you can go and fill in whatever I'm missing in our full explanation. But I'm Marty Munger. I was on here before talking all things Enneagram. And funny enough, Casey is also an Enneagram coach. And we have another partner who was also an Enneagram coach. So that's kind of how we all came together and decided to create our own company. So that is what Work Ethos is. And it's crazy because I realized like my name was my maiden name when I joined today. And I was like, oh my gosh, we haven't talked in a while. And I was like, wow, we really have been slowly building and creating this company that is now work ethos. And basically it's all about team building and really helping founders create the team that they need. And so I'll leave it there for that for now, just because I know we're gonna deep dive. But yeah, that's a little bit about what's kind of happened since the last time I was here. Awesome, awesome.
SPEAKER_00:All right, Casey, tell us about you.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. So as Marty said, I am also an Enneagram coach. So that was kind of where the three of us aligned and work and just we saw a lot of gaps in the workplace. And with specifically with Enneagram, but a lot of assessments have gaps. And we really wanted something that filled all of those gaps and tackled the things that that we saw amongst teams where they had a lot of questions. They're like, well, okay, if I'm this, then what is this? Right. Like, and so we kind of come in and we're like, okay, here's here's why, here's why you work this way, and here's how you're wired. So that's how Work E those was born. Um, I've spent the most of my life as a film producer, which I still do on the side, but that is kind of my um my journey in in documentary filmmaking specifically. So I love the story behind anything. And story is the thing that drives me. And when I look at workplaces around the world, I feel like that's also the thing that needs to drive them. Yeah. And so this is just another way and another tool to be able to tell their story. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and I I love like what y'all are saying. I mean, the what I always have said I love about the Enneagram, it does say say tell a complete story of the person. It's not um one-dimensional. There's multi-dimensions. And so y'all, how y'all connected with the Enneagram is like just makes a lot of sense on how y'all are looking at work life, what how to support people better, how to help them to tell the whole story of who they are in the workplace. Because that is just one part of our lives, is work. But it is a major part of our lives, right? And so it does, it tells a part of the story, but we need to know all the different layers to who we are. Yes.
SPEAKER_05:And it's wild to me because work can show up so many different ways for people. It's sometimes it's the place where you spend the most time, but it's sometimes the most, it's where you're the most filtered too, you know, like a lot of times you can't be right a hundred percent authentic just because there are certain professional roles or things that you have to be in specific jobs. And so for me, it's just I remember realizing, especially when I got into the workforce, and like this is the majority of your day is work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you don't even like enjoy it or fully align with it, like that is detrimental to your health, no matter what. Like it doesn't matter how much money you're making, it's gonna get you one way or another. And work is one of those messy topics that it's not perfect, like you could do what you love and it can still be stressful as heck. So yeah, it's just a very confusing place sometimes because you do have to use the filter.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and and I know, Marty, you and I talked about this on one of the episodes you were on, but a lot of times we don't even know that until we get in the work, right? Like we can we can go to school and get training and do all the things, and then we get it and we're like, oh, this isn't what I thought, or or I'm not as good at this or this part of it that I thought I would be. And but then we feel stuck because we paid all this money for the training or the education or whatever. And yeah, and that there's a lot of stress to that. And I mean, that's something I talk a lot about with clients in the therapy room is like, you know, trying to problem solve, like, how do we make this work if you have to? Um, so I'm excited that y'all can kind of bring that expertise in to give some insight into that.
SPEAKER_07:So yeah, and one of the things that you just brought up too, like I think when we are so stuck in that cycle at work, we come home feeling insecure and inadequate. And then that filters into our home life with our families and our spouses and just all around. Like when I see when I see work ethos transforming a workplace, like I don't just see it transforming a workplace, I see it transforming a home. Because when you are able to really love what you do and love the people that you do it with, then that come into the home and you'll just have such a happier attitude.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, okay, so we know Marty. Casey, tell us a little bit. Like you have three kids. I I read that you're you've now become a runner, your new runner. Love it.
SPEAKER_07:New runner.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_07:It's like a love-hate relationship at the moment.
SPEAKER_03:Total. What race are you training for?
SPEAKER_07:You said you're training for your first yeah, half half marathon, yeah. Um, and it's it's called the mermaid half here in Orlando, Florida. And so I started in April. I love it.
SPEAKER_03:I love mermaids, so I need more information about this. Okay, keep going.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. I mean, it's been one of those journeys where I was like, okay, let's just see what happens. And now I'm like, I I typically go all in on something when I decide to go all in on it. And so now I'm like rotating through running shoes and like probably gonna become the president of a run club soon. I don't know. Like all of a sudden it's all in your whole personality. My whole personality. I don't know what's happening. This is weird, and my hips hurt all the time. I don't know if it's normal. It's yeah, it's a learning process.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so what is the a mermaid? What is the mermaid race? Tell me, tell me about it.
SPEAKER_07:It's just the name of it. So the actual like overarching name is Legends, Legends R. I don't know, but there's so there's a marathon, and that's like the skunk ape marathon, so it's like Bigfoot, skunk ape marathon. That's like Florida's okay Florida's uh Bigfoot. Okay, and then the half is for whatever reason called a mermaid.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, half, okay, yeah. So so you're in Florida. You do you live near Orlando?
SPEAKER_07:Yes, I'm right outside of Orlando.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, I'm uh since now you're a runner, and I don't know how you feel about Disney. Oh, I love Disney. Okay, okay. Of course you gotta do a Disney run at some point.
SPEAKER_07:I know everyone's been saying that.
SPEAKER_03:Like okay, I had a goal to do a princess, the princess run at one point. Because I just kept seeing like, and I was like, oh, that'd be fun. And I I run, so like whatever. And um I did that, and I was like, I get it now. I totally get why people are obsessed with these Disney races. It was amazing. Like, I look so happy in the entire thing because you take pictures with all of the princesses, like they're on the runs. Oh my gosh, it was amazing. So I think that should be your next goal is do a lot of things.
SPEAKER_05:I think I could be sold on a Disney run and I don't even like running, but if I'm like motivated by simulation and things that are coming alongside me, yeah. I don't don't you even get in like I think you can get in early, like to parks or sit or like areas, like if it's really early before crowds and you're just in that group running through it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean that the the the day is insane. Like I think I got up at like 2 30 in the morning because you have to like oh my gosh, yeah, because you have to bus over there, like it's a whole situation, but everybody is so happy and everybody's there because they love Disney and they don't care that it's super early. And it it was a fantastic experience. I did it completely by myself, like I, you know, and then my husband came and picked me up because I we went to Disney with my family, and that that was part of the the um the trip was me running this race, but no, totally worth it. I didn't I didn't get the hype. I wanted to do it just because it sounded fun, but yeah, I would totally do it again.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, I'm yeah, I'm I'm sold. Did you do the half or the full?
SPEAKER_03:I did the half, I did the uh princess half.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, okay. Yeah, I don't think I could do the full yet.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, she's gonna do a full at some point in her life. It's happening.
SPEAKER_07:I'm like an ultra runner by next year.
SPEAKER_03:We'll touch back, we'll touch base and see where you're at in your mind. Okay. Do we want to talk about y'all's podcast? Yes. Okay, absolutely. So tell me about the podcast. I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_05:I am because this has been it's been this like want to do for so long.
SPEAKER_03:But I remember talking to you about it at that soccer game. I met you, and you were like, I'm thinking about it, right? Yes, that was like two years ago.
SPEAKER_05:Oh my gosh, I forgot about that. Yeah. So it really has been like this burning, like, okay, slow burn, here we go. And now it's really great because now that we've brought in Casey, Casey's had a podcast before, so she knows like what the heck to do. And so I I'm excited because so what one of our main things is our assessment. So we've got two assessments. One is called Work Intelligence Index and then Work Style DNA. And we want the podcast to be called work intelligently because yeah, intelligently can mean so many different things, you know, in so many different facets. And my vision in KC will be able to fill in as well. Like it's just gonna be a great place to have conversations with, you know, whether it's founders that we're helping and their experience with whether it's the assessment, learning how to lead, learning their team, like learning how to create a team that's really, you know, inligned personality-wise, and everyone's in the right seat on the bus. And so there's gonna be so many stories about how entrepreneurs struggle to even get to that point. And we're in that boat. We've been struggling for a hot minute trying to get this thing up and going. And so I think there's just so many topics we can explore that way, and so it's it's in progress. Only a few episodes have been recorded, but we're building. Okay.
SPEAKER_07:Yes, yeah. And what I love that sets us apart too is that the work intelligence index, it's we have like 27 character types. Like when you think about personalities, yeah, and you think about like how you show up, who wouldn't be interested in that? Because you know, you have Enneagram, it has it has nine, and that's great. But like we have 27 that we could go through. That's 27 episodes right there, right? Just on those specific characters. So I'm excited to really break it down and and just tell people more about what it's about, more about what work intelligence index does.
SPEAKER_03:How do you even? I mean, this this is just out of my curiosity. How do you even come up with an assessment assessments like that?
SPEAKER_05:I mean, that has got to be a big undertaking. I know, and this is kind of CJ's like genius as well. But it started off like it, like Casey was saying, it started off going, we love the Enneagram, but there are parts that are just not completely holistic. And even though there are nine, you still kind of get put into a bucket, and that's your bucket, and you know, you don't drip out of that bucket, even though there's a lot going on. And it just became like, okay, there's so many ways in which we all operate. And I know with the Enneagram, it also talked about like heart and gut, and that was something that we kept going back to. Like, okay, we we use all three, we're not just one, like, there's no way to just be one. And I think that's where people can get a little frustrated with the Enneagram because they will have a feeling or experience something that's not in that lane that they're told that they're in. And as humans, we're just so interconnected. And so that's kind of what stemmed that as well is because work intelligence has your cognitive intelligence, your emotional intelligence, and your instinctual intelligence and how you use all three, how you use them well, how you struggle with them, and they're gonna show up differently for each of those 27 different types. And so that kind of led into okay, we'll incorporate that. And then there was just more that we wanted to go into like how do you show up as a leader, a team member? How does burnout look for you? How do you get to burnout? Even things like information processing speed, which is such a very hard to tell thing on the surface, but it's a huge difference in people. And Candace, I know you're married to a five, right? Like he's a five. I'm also married to a five, right? Yeah, slower processing, and I'm not even that fast of a processor, but that difference is stark. And so there's just so much we kept finding that we wanted to include, and so it be kind of became the assessment to like end all assessments because it just gives you so much information about how you're wired.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And like for instance, Candace, I mean, Marty and I are both sevens, but we are wildly different. Sure. And I think that's like so that, and I mean, that's the case for Enneagram too. But I think a lot of times in the workplace, people just like Marty was saying, they stick you in your bucket and like, oh, well, she's a seven. Um, but they're so wildly different. Like, no four is the same, no three is the same, nobody's the same. And so what work intelligence index really does is it breaks it down even further and gives you like really specific characteristics that read your mail. Like you're like, oh my gosh, you are in my head right now. Like, you get me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And it's wild, even though, like, between me, Casey, and CJ, CJ's our our other founder, she's kind of the one that pioneered this. She like, we're all in gram sevens. Oh, are you? You're all sevens? That's awesome. All different, very different, but also in some ways similar. Yeah. But I even go back, even though we created this assessment and like our own character types, like I still am using that, like looking at it going, oh, that got me in trouble today. Like, I know this is sometimes a nine-coded thing, but I don't like conflict. And I've gotten time and time again where I will avoid it or gloss over it. And that's like a section in our results. And I'm like, even this week, I was like, oh, that bit me in the butt because I didn't face it how I should have. And like in our results, it's telling me you need to be more direct. Yeah. Yeah. And not withholding and not like, oh, it'll be fine. Like, no, it won't. You gotta face it. And it's crazy. It's like it's such a guide in so many ways at this point, even though we created it, I'm like, oh, I should, I gotta go back and look at my own supplyability.
SPEAKER_03:It is, yeah, yeah. Well, and thinking about what y'all were saying earlier, too, it because we are we are multifaceted people, right? This assessment, it sounds like it shows that full story, but specific to the workplace. Because how I mean, how is am I how is my personhood, Candace, outside of work, showing up at work just because that's who I am? And how is that making me struggle in certain aspects of my work? And it's so it just brings that to the awareness, it sounds like very much. I love it. Okay, so the podcast is gonna be like y'all diving into these different like categories of people and typings and okay.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I think Perfect World is having a whole all 27 and multiple versions of 27 and just like like getting to deep dive into results, getting to deep dive into the stories of people and how they're using it, and and then even just anything that can be related topic-wise. Like I feel like you're such a great resource because you're obviously gonna be on it too, and having that perspective of dealing with people day in and day out of that mental health burnout piece, like that's even something that we'll love to explore. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, so exciting. I'm so excited. Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait. I can't wait. All right, well, so who wants to start with their rants today?
SPEAKER_05:I have one. I don't know if you have one, Casey. I do. She's got one. Okay. I'll start. I'll I'll start. This one's not necessarily like a I feel like it's more of like an emotion, not emotional, but like motivational rant that I've had just in the back of my head for a couple months now. But I don't know what it was, but one day I got really fixated on the topic of just like pay attention to passion because I just believe like if you know what lights you up, yeah, you are going to enjoy your life more. But I think it's a not that it's not that simple. And I I went down the rabbit hole of like, I wonder how many TED talks are on this topic. And I started looking at it, I started seeing it, and I saw a few. There were a few that were like, follow what you love, follow passions. But there were way more people saying, don't follow your passion. Oh, that's not realistic. Follow what you're good at, not what you really love. Like that's just dumb to follow that. Huh. And I get it from that realistic standpoint of yes, you can't drop everything and just go be a rock star. Like, I get that. But I think it's a a deeper, more detailed thing. If you can pay attention to all these little things in your life that make you happy or give you joy, that can be almost like a tool to mitigate burnout. Because yes, we can't work a job always that we absolutely love and it's great. And work isn't always that simple. Right. But to me, I was like, yes, but if you can like figure out, okay, what's a workout that I really, really love? Like Casey, like if running lights you up, like make sure you're doing something like that and not just doing it because you feel like you have to, but that's something that can kind of add to your day. And same with just little things like, oh, I really love conspiracies about mermaids. Like, okay, yes, I want to go down that road hole. Yeah, you know, and it's and it's just stuff like that. That I don't think we're taught to pay attention to it and the importance of it. It just kind of is a fleeting moment, and we're like, oh, that was so fun, and then we carry on our on our day. And so I don't know. I just it's just been in on my mind for a couple months because I think if you can just track that, it's almost like this thing where you go, if I'm struggling and I and I get it, people don't have time, the world is overwhelming. Like, yeah, right. We all have kids, everyone's needs come first. It's not like you can just stop and go, okay, I'm gonna go do this workout or do this thing because I want to. It's like you have to prioritize it to make time for yourself, and that can feel selfish or can feel like just not a priority because you've got a million other things going on. Anyways, that's kind of my rant of just like how just paying attention to it and logging it and like knowing this is what can really be life and fill my cup in small ways can just be really, really helpful. And I just don't think we're taught to do that.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and I think it's very easy to feel bad, like you said, to feel bad to do that, right? To feel selfish. Okay, so so in you know, in the future, look for Marty's TED Talk on I love that.
SPEAKER_05:If there are girls, I literally put it in Chat GPT and I was like, okay, I'm just gonna store this for when the time comes. But it's just been on my brain, and I'm like, people need to know what makes them happy because I think there's genuinely a lot that don't.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, well, what Enneagram number do y'all think does the best job at? Because I have I have a theory, but I'd love to hear what y'all think.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, definitely seven. Okay, okay, definitely seven. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to think.
SPEAKER_03:I actually think fours probably do I was gonna say four next sevens and fours, because because I have a friend that's a four, and she loves things so passionately. And I mean, almost like a little kid, right? Like she's just obsessed with it. And and we all love, like, that's one of our favorite things about her because nobody loves anything as much as Britney.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And my husband's the same way. Oh, yeah. Is he a four?
SPEAKER_07:As a four, as a four, yeah, obsessed with the ocean. Like, I get that.
SPEAKER_05:I get that on a deep level. I even can see eights being really like in tune with passionate things, just because they can go either way, yeah. Whether it's like bad intensity or good shorts, I think they are more aware of it. But then there's definitely types that don't even, it's not even on the radar of what would fill their cup or make them excited. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, like I'm thinking of a nine, like even they may have passion, but you they may not even know because they're so like, you know, neutral about a lot of things, most things, everything. Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Or that like should factor. Like, I feel like three probably has a lot of like, oh, I should like this. I should like being in a manager role. I should like, you know, doing whatever because it looks good, but they don't actually care.
SPEAKER_03:And it's like that they think they should. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Okay, I like it. I like it. All right, Casey, what's your rants?
SPEAKER_07:Um, yours was so much better, Marty.
SPEAKER_03:My no, this is good. I I'm excited about yours. All right.
SPEAKER_07:So the other, the other last Friday, I took my daughter to go see Freakier Friday. And if you remember Freaky Friday as a kid, like it was so total nostalgia. And they did such a great job, too, of like bringing in all of those old callbacks and everything. And I left the theater feeling like, oh man, I miss a good 90s rom-com. Like, we haven't had a good romantic comedy in forever. And like, you know, people are like, Well, there's Hallmark, but it's not, it's like Hallmark has its own thing, right? Like it has its own formula, like small town girl, meets a big town, you know, like it's the same thing every time. Yeah, and I just miss like the Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks era. One of my favorite movies of all time is A Fair to Remember, like the old, like Carrie Grant version. Yeah, and you know, the one that's referenced in Sleepless in Seattle with Tom Hanks, the Meg Ryan. And that movie, like, will feel like love can change your whole life. Like, love can change the whole trajectory. You leave feeling so inspired and motivated and like good inside. But I feel like all the rom-coms today have an agenda and they're just they're so full of all these like nuances and just stuff that you're like, eh, that wasn't necessary. Right.
SPEAKER_03:I think they make them more complicated than they happen to be.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like just give me give me a good like city backdrop, like a character, like feel good, good music, but not cheesy, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because that's more like the Hallmark situation.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, yes, like but in rom-com, like in the theater, you know.
SPEAKER_05:And I don't know if this is rom-com, but legally blonde will just always make me happy. Oh, yeah. Any day of the week, it'll make me happy and feel empowered.
SPEAKER_03:And and sweet home Alabama. Yeah, that's a really good one. I love that one too. Yes. What what like I can't even think of what maybe uh one of the last rom coms what? No, they just fall short. They're just not they're not memorable.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. They're not comfort movies. Like, I feel like the ones that we've had you can watch over and over again and you're excited about it.
SPEAKER_03:These are like, all right, so yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Well, I mean, you're in the film industry. Yeah, I might have to do, I might have just make one. I think you should. I think you should. Yeah, okay. So Marty's gonna be have a TED talk. Casey is going to give us the next best. We're putting it out there now. Here we go. Here we go. Love it. You heard it here first on the couch next door. All right. Yeah. Okay, let's dive in. Let's dive in. Um, okay, so I'm excited to have y'all because so often, you know, people are coming into the therapy room and talking about work, right? Work is one of the main stressors, right, that people are experiencing. Um, and so that's Constantly something that's coming in. And so for me as a therapist, I'm I'm talking more about like the emotional piece and like how is that impacting you at home? And we talk a lot about, you know, work dynamics and work-life balance and burnout, like how much too much is too much for you and where do we set boundaries and stuff. Um, so I'm excited to hear like really what y'all's specific um advices, encouragement is for people in the work life space when we're talking about mental health. Um, so jumping in, I mean, I know a lot of the things that, you know, on your website and some of the stuff with the um the assessments is really knowing how to work well within a team, right? So the work dynamics. So what would you say is one of the more important um what are one of the more important parts of like work feeling like a team sport? Like having the that cohesion. Why is that important?
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Well, I mean, when you think about a team and you think about a team sport, like if one person's doing all the work, you're not gonna win. Like that person's going to burn out, they're going to be exhausted, their legs are gonna give out if they're running down the soccer field and they're trying to get every single goal. And so you can't carry the ball alone. Like you have to pass it off, and it has to feel like a team effort and celebrate ones together. And that's what makes a great team, right? So they're sharing the weight of every single challenge that's coming their way. They're um, they're bringing out each other's strengths in the best way. And I think it in that way, when when you do have a very cohesive team, it's going to create this really great energy rather than exhaustion. So you're not going to burn out as fast because like I know Marty's strengths and I know what I can pass off to her, and I can like pass the ball down the field and I can go ahead and run this direction and be ready for the pass off. Like that's so important on a team. And I think we miss that a lot of times in the workplace.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah. My brain immediately went to like, if you think about a football team, everyone has their role. Yeah. And there's a reason why, and I'm not a football person, so don't, you know, judge my knowledge of this, but like, there's a reason someone's kicking versus sure, you know, charging into somebody else. Like everyone, when you're aware, like, oh, you're really good at this thing, it's not a reflection of, oh, I'm not good at that. It's that's what they need to do. And then I do this so that way we can play to our strengths and not get fixated on what we're not good at. Obviously, always continue, you know, working on what you can to improve. But like when everyone knows, like, okay, this is why they're in that seat, this is why I'm in my seat, it feels better because you're getting to do what you're good at. You're getting to do what you're, you know, aligned for. And then when that happens, like Casey said, the energy is there, it's more cohesive. Yeah. But it does take breaking down that barrier to go, okay, here's what I'm not good at. Here's where I struggle, and that's okay. And it's okay that you're better at X, Y, and Z than me. Like Casey's so good with marketing and all things like that. And I'm like, I don't even comprehend half the stuff that goes into all of that. And so, and that's okay. Like, that's why we have certain things that we're better at.
SPEAKER_07:It's almost like we wanna we wanna make sure that we're first, right? We want to make sure that like we've got this down, we want to make sure that we're looking good in front of our CEO or whoever's on our team. Like, but you're choosing the wrong kind of work. So you're saying yes to the wrong kind of work. And this goes for even like freelancers, because I mean, I was a freelancer for most of my life, right? Like I said yes to every project that crossed my desk because I wanted the money, I wanted the income, I wanted to make sure that I kept clients happy. And at some point, you're going to become so burned out and you're gonna continue to work on the projects that you really that you said yes to that you really love. And like you, Samarty, like pay attention to that passion because you'll see like what you're passionate about. But then you're also going to completely burn out over here on these other projects because it's the wrong kind of yes, it's the wrong kind of work. You shouldn't have said yes to it in the per in the first place. And so then you get stuck in your solving problems that you shouldn't be solving, and you're spending energy where you're not wanted and you could be creating more impact over here. And so it's being able to recognize that and being able to recognize okay, this is where I'm strong in, I can say yes to this, I can feel confident in this, this is where I this is my superpower. That I said yes to, right? Am I gonna feel drained at the end of it? Like those are important things to keep in mind. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And if you are in a season where you have to say yes to draining things, like knowing, okay, how else am I gonna take care of myself if I know I'm going down this path? And is there an end? Is there a time that that's gonna stop where I can get back into other stuff? But I I truly believe there's so many people that are stuck and are stuck in things that drain them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And for however many reasons, can't fully get out of that. But it's like, how do you add things in to mitigate that as well?
SPEAKER_03:Well, and and the assessments that y'all created is such a helpful tool because then you can identify, you know, these these are my you know, flaws of set maybe saying yes to too many things, or this is what I am good at, these are my strengths, these are the things that I'm not so good at. I mean, and then and thinking back to what y'all were talking about as far as the team sport goes, what do y'all see gets in the way of that cohesion? I mean, the one thing that I'm thinking of is ego, right? Like people admitting that they're not good at something, they don't really like to do that. Um, they want to be first, they want to be, you know, get the accolades from the boss or whatever. But is there anything outside of just egos that's so many?
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, I bet. There's so many. I mean, a lot of times I think people get left out too, because you know, there might be two, you know, like I always go to soccer analogy. I played soccer, but like there might be two forwards down the field that know exactly how to work with each other and they're so great. And they forget to look back at the midfield to give themselves a little relief, right? And so like they're leaving this person out that's a great asset because they already know, like, oh, we've got this, we've done this before, we got we could make this goal. Um, so I think that's a that's another big thing too that happens. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I think it's learning to translate what's in the assessment to real life as well, because we can say, like, oh, yes, there are fast processors, slow processors, but if you're in a meeting and you're leading this and you might be a leader who's fast processor and you're like, okay, we're gonna have this meeting, we're gonna have a decision and we're gonna be done. And then there are people in that room that moderate to slow processors are taking in that information, they're mulling it over, and they need more time. Like, yeah, if they wrap that meeting up and go on with their day, those those people are just gonna go, okay, whatever, on to the next thing. I'm but they might have an amazing idea 24 hours later that would make it so much better. And it's just learning that little, it's like I say awareness, but it's just that little, like, oh, I need to be thinking of my team in multiple aspects and not just the lane that I'm used to being in, because that's how I'm wired. Right.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and I'm also thinking developing trust. I mean, how because like if you know, like you're saying, Casey, if you know Marty's strengths and she knows yours, then then there's that mutual trust and that mutual influence, right? Like you can hand that over to her and feel good about that rather than feeling like, oh, well, she's better. You know, the comparison. So I I wonder like, how does that, and this may go into where we were going next, but how do you develop that kind of trust on a team so that there is that cohesion?
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:I mean, that goes right into, you know, one of our big things that we do with the work intelligence index is know your team. Like it starts there. Okay. Um, because when you have a bigger picture of how the people on your team are wired, immediately you are creating more empathy for those on your team. You're able to understand, like, oh, well, that makes sense. Like she's uh, you know, she's gonna need a day or two to think about this and not give me a quick answer. Um, or or oh, she, you know, doesn't really love working on those little admin type projects that drains her. Like when you know that about somebody, you know how to how to first of all, you know how to like come to them with it, right? Like, I know you hate this. Would you mind just taking a look at it for me? You know what I mean? Like, because I because I value this, what you're gonna say in this particular area. Um, so it starts there. It starts with knowing your team, knowing their, like working with their gut, working with their heart, working with their cognitive intelligence, like being able to know all of those pieces. That's that's key.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. And I think a lot of really high performers are yes people. Like they're ready to take on everything. They're ready to help, they're ready to do, they're ready to do that above and beyond, which as a leader, you're probably like, yes, they're doing all this stuff. They're thriving on the surface, they look great. And then they're they're running themselves into the ground and they, you know, either quit or implode out of nowhere. And I think as a leader, it's learning, okay, that that's that type of personality. How do I protect them from overdoing or over saying yes? And vice versa. Like, how do I say, actually, this task goes to you, this task goes to you, and everyone's in their right lane versus, oh, I know she'll do it, she'll do a good job, right? Which is the easy way to kind of get work done. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And when you understand somebody's strengths, when you understand their style and like what they what the value that they're bringing, it makes conflict go away. Like you're, I mean, you'll still have conflict, but it it also makes it less personal. So like you're not going to take it personally all the time. You're going to understand, like, oh, well, that's just their strength and this is mine. Um, it the team feels more cohesive. It feels more natural. It's like, uh, and I love this because our work ethos is a light bulb, but it's literally like turning on a light bulb and a dark realm. Yeah. Like you're able to just see things in a new way and through a new lens.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, exactly. And I think what one way, because we obviously have work intelligence, which is like this personality hardwiring at work guide. Like it's hefty. I think I can't remember how many pages the full report is, but it's like 10. So it's it's lengthy. But then we have another assessment that's a little bit quicker, a little bit more cut and dry, which is our work style DNA, which is basically your superpower, competency, and drainer. Like, what are you really good at? What's going to drain you? And it's a little bit more cut and paste. And now I know work isn't, oh, I'm only in my superpower. Like, there's no way, like, life isn't like that. But that's one tool that we have that can help you go, oh, that's what she's really good at. Or is she getting to do that? Is he getting to do that? Or am I, or is the work all distributed incorrectly right now?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Well, and when I think about it through the mental health lens, humans like to feel seen, right? And so, like that when when when a leader can see all of these layers in this one person, they're not just seen as I'm the worker or I'm the I'm just the employee, and I've I've been told to do this, so I'm gonna do this. Even like what you said, the example you said, Casey, of going to somebody and saying, I know you really hate this and I know this is a drainer for you. And I really need you to look at this, right? Like, I mean, it's just acknowledging their personhood, acknowledging that this is probably really hard and a big ask. And you still need them to do that. I mean, just like like you said, that empathy brings that connection and creates, you know, like I know that you're a person and I see you and I know this is hard. And so I'm I'm in that with you, right? Like, I'm not just throwing this at you because it's your job and you've got to do it, but I'm asking and inviting you into that with me because I see you and I understand you. And I mean, just that, like, if we can just somehow create all work environments just based on that, like yeah, forget all the other stuff. Like, if people can just feel seen, that's huge. And this is such a great tool for people to feel seen and understood because it tells their full story of who they are. Yeah, I love that. Okay. So we're talking, we're talking a little bit about like knowing your team's strengths, work styles, and values and how that helps with the environment. Is there anything more to add to that conversation, like why it's important to know strengths, work styles, and values to help with the dynamic?
SPEAKER_07:I think a lot of times workplaces they tolerate the differences, you know, like you know somebody's different, yeah. Right? Like you, but like so you just tolerate, like, oh, that's just how she is. But I think when you are able to see, like I said, like their strengths, their values, their work style DNA, it takes it from that to like now you're leveraging their differences. Now you're able to be like, oh, okay, here's how you're different, and here's how this can be an amazing asset to this project right here, or this, you know, it's it changes, it just completely changes it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah. And on that same vein, I think a lot of leaders will hire people that they think are very similar to them and they like that because that's very comfortable. They're like, oh, I work hard, they work hard, I'm extroverted, they're extroverted, this is gonna be great. And they think I just need to keep replicating that. I've been in a workplace where they were like, we just want this one type of person, it's the only person that's gonna thrive in this. So we copy and paste, copy and paste. But that's exactly how you end up with a misalignment of tasks.
SPEAKER_03:And yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's a very interesting thing for me to even think about because you're absolutely right. I think if you don't have that kind of awareness of why differences are good, right? Why differences make our team stronger, then you, yes, you will stay in your comfort zone. Absolutely. Like, I know how to get along with this person, I know I can count on them in this particular way, but what are we missing, right? Like, what are the holes in all of that? Because this one particular person is not good at everything. And so there's no way that you're covering everything that needs to be covered in you know, the work, the tasks, even like the dynamic. Like, there's so much that can be missed there. That's interesting. Yeah, I never thought about like that. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So embrace the differences, look for people that are different. And if you know that, right? Like if you know, like this is that person's strength, this is that person's weakness, goes back to what y'all were saying, then you can know where they're gonna thrive. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And that's I think we're going the same place, Casey. I I saw it too. Um, and that's why we we kind of created this communication matrix. It's a big chart of all your team members and all their different like communication style conflict, information processing. It's a a big um kind of chart that leaders will get and it will show you okay, you've got all these people with, you know, whether it's all the same or different, like you get to see all those differences and similarities, but it'll show you pretty quick, like with like work style DNA, you could have a whole team of innovators and need a navigator. Yeah, right. You could have a whole team of hot, fast processors and have no slow processors. And it's like, oh, that's what I need to look for in our next edition.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. So it fills the gaps for you. You're able to see clearly and you're able to use it as a as a playbook. So like you can just keep it in your desk and be like, I gotta go have a conversation with Margaret. Let me see how I do that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Or there's an opening. What kind of a communicator are we needing on our team? Yeah, right. Um, oh, that's amazing. Okay. We'll get we'll get to that because I want to talk a little bit more about like what that looks like tangibly and tactically when you are working with other businesses. But um, okay, so if we're talking about just individuals, right? And knowing like me as an individual employee or whatever, knowing what my work values are, like what's most important to me. Why is that important when we're talking about maybe avoiding burnout or when we're talking about advocating for what we need? Um, again, in the therapy room, a lot of times I'm talking with people on how to advocate for boundaries or how to be maybe more direct with their leadership on what what they're needing or or what kind of tasks they want or or need to sort of delegate. Um, and so why is it important for individuals to know their work values in order to advocate for themselves?
SPEAKER_07:Well, it takes the pressure off completely off the leader. So, like if the leader's already, you know, are is able to know the team so well, they already know like what's gonna drain them because they can just look at their playbook, right? They look at their matrix. But it makes it easier for the team member to go to the leader and say, Hey, this is this is a boundary I'm gonna have to draw just because I know my limit and I know this is gonna really drain me. Here's what I can offer in this space. Like, you know, it and it and they'll understand that because they they then have the playbook before them. So it takes the pressure off of like a really difficult conversation that might give somebody a lot of anxiety when they go to their when they go to their superior or whatever. Like that would be a very difficult conversation. But instead, you're like, as you know, I've now taken some time to process this because I'm a slow processor, and here's where I've come up with, you know, and they'll be like, Oh yeah, okay, well, thank you for bringing that to my attention. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And I think too, exactly, it it gives them their own like language for the boundaries. And it's like, well, if this is something like I need to protect, or if you know it's just feeling seen or empathy is a huge boundary, and maybe you've got a manager that really isn't very emotional or doesn't really go into that lane, like just being able to have the language to say, like, hey, it's really important for me to understood. I don't know if I fully get that from you. Yeah. And it's like not as it's just it's just giving the language to be a little bit more direct and not so like, how do I say this? Why do I feel this way? Is this right? Is this wrong? And like having your results, it's kind of like a nice way to go back to that and go, okay, this is literally how I'm wired on a piece of paper. It's not me just being difficult, right? Yeah, this is me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And even like for somebody that might value a challenge, like want to be challenged a little bit, they're able to like go and say, Hey, this project's going to challenge me. That's going to stretch me. And I love that. So, like, let me take lead. You know, like maybe there's a little bit of confidence boost in somebody to be able to put themselves in that position because they're like, hey, look, on paper, I love this. So, like, I really love this.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. Well, and going back to your rant, Marty, like passions. Like, if we know and and what this information, these assessments tell us is what we're good at, maybe what our strengths are, what our weaknesses are. And yeah, like what you're saying, Casey, we can volunteer for something because we're like, oh no, I know this is gonna be hard, but I'm gonna love it. Like this is gonna be amazing. But we see that on paper. So you're y'all, what y'all are saying is so right on and so helpful, I think, for people to know in like black and white terms, this is what I'm good at, this is what I'm not. So it's okay, right? Like it's almost giving them a permission slip of it's okay for me to set a boundary here because I am gonna struggle with it. And that's okay because look at all these great things that I I am equipped with that I'm able to do. Because it's, I mean, our brains automatically go to, you know, the shortcomings, the negative. And in that mindset, it's so hard to remember the things that we are good at because we just get overwhelmed and flooded with the shortcomings in that moment. So being able to have that information in front of you and say it's okay that I'm setting a boundary here and advocating for myself in this lane because I'm able to offer so much over here, and that's where I need to focus on. And so going back to burnout, because you said something, Casey, in your form of burnout isn't about too much work, it's about the wrong kind of work. So, can you speak a little bit more on that specific topic?
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, and that goes back to our work style DNA. So, like, you know, we're we're either an innovator, we're a navigator, or we're a facilitator. And there are very facilitator-specific roles, you know, that are more um boots on ground, get it done. And then the innovators are the ones that are like behind the scenes, like creating the thing. Like they're they're creating this new project that we're about to step into or this new product that we're about to launch. We can't begin those boots on the ground without that. And the boots on the ground facilitator people are not gonna love the innovation piece, right? But let's say they're in a role that requires more innovation than they're able to do, or that they're competent in doing it, but it it's the thing that drains them. And so when you know that about your teammate, you can be like, oh my gosh, I have you in the wrong seat. Like you need to take what you know, what Marty's created over here and then go do it. Like you're you're gonna be the perfect person to make sure that we follow through because we can innovate all day long, but like you're itching to get out there and do it. And so there's gonna be, and that's gonna cause friction if you don't know that about the person, because they're gonna be the ones that are like instantly, well, let me just go do it. Like, right, here's here's how I know I can get it done. Here, here's I already have the map, I have the spreadsheet. Like, and they're like, Well, that's not what I told you to do. You're supposed to continue to innovate. Yeah, so like, so when you're able to know that and and say, Oh, well, you're just in the wrong role, you're in the wrong, you're you're picking the wrong thing or saying yes and the wrong thing, that's where you're gonna be burned out because you're doing things that are draining you. Yeah, and and like the other one is navigator, and so they're the ones, and we we have like hand language around this that we that like unintentionally happened because like I'm a navigator, and so when I talk, it's always like it's more like direct, like it's like we should, we should, or you know, and then like the innovators more like, what if we like their hands are always up, like streaming, right? Or like looking up in the sky, like, oh my gosh, I just have the best idea. Yeah, and the facilitators are typically like palms down, like, oh my gosh, there's out, there's amazing, and so that's kind of how you can figure out like where you land in that space.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I've even noticed because work is fluid and work requires you to do all three. I've noticed on days like navigation is my drainer, and I'll be able to pinpoint like, why was this day so maddening? Why am I so brain tired? And it's because I've been having to navigate and like push things forward and get people to do stuff. And I'm like, I'm so tired of doing that. And I have to just remember at the end of the day, I'm like, okay, that was a day that required a lot of me to be in that mode. Doesn't mean like, and my day isn't always my work's not always like that, but there are times where it's like, that's why. That's why I'm tired. Yeah. And yeah, it just gives you that reasoning to it's okay. Like, we're gonna get back in our main mode.
SPEAKER_07:Yes. And on days like that, I think it's really important to have self-care, like some kind of practice in place that you can just like okay, that day was draining. I need to put something on the calendar that I'm looking forward to that's going to fill me back up. You know what I mean? And like, because if we're constantly going into days like that, and we might have to because of the role that we're in at work.
SPEAKER_06:Right.
SPEAKER_07:If we're constantly doing those things and we're not filling our cups back up, yes, forget about it. Like you're you're it's gonna come out sideways.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, right. Well, and knowing that, right? Like you can plan for those things if you or at least be aware of it, right? Like if you know that you had a navigating sort of day, and or maybe a string of days, right? Like, and you feel drain. Again, there's that language, right? You know why, and you know that taking extra care of yourself on that particular week or weekend or whatever is so important.
SPEAKER_05:And it really is wild to me because I have worked in a job that that was my main role. And it is wild how much it just took so much energy out of me. I was angry, I was so like just not a good version of myself, but I was doing the job and it wasn't bad. It was shine. But I think that's where so many people they end up getting stuck working in only their competency or only their drainer and are not even getting to touch what they're really good at, but they're getting praised for the work they're doing, but they're still at the end of the day exhausted, and it's kind of giving that again that that language to it.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, this makes me think of one thing. Like if somebody is, you know, looking at I don't know, trying to get a new job or whatever, looking at, you know, what what do I do next? Or I need a job, how do they sort of filter that? Because I mean, that's also something that I talk a lot with clients. It's like, okay, well, you know, what are your values? Not as y'all are doing it. Now I have a tool and a place to send them, but like, yeah, what what are you good at? Where's a job that you felt really good? And how do they do that so that they either, I mean, I think obviously taking these assessments, but how do you look for that? How do you look for that and know that when you're doing job interviews and stuff?
SPEAKER_05:I think one thing you can do is asking, like, if you have made it, obviously looking at the job description, like, does this look like on paper, just yeah, lots of leading, lots of innovation, lots of tasks? And there's always going to be a combination of those things, but like just trying to make sure you're starting there. But I think in the interview, asking, like, when you think about this person in this role, what does it look like for them to be successful? What strengths are valuable in this role? And I think just getting really specific, like, you know, what does that look like? What does a typical day look like? And I think there are roles where they go, oh, this is a brand new role. This is brand new. We're gonna have you design it. That's a lot of innovation and navigation right there. So it's like if they don't have a clear idea of what success looks like and it's gonna have to be created, like that's already a flag of like, oh, you're gonna be steering the ship. Yeah. So I think just specifically asking to get those details in your fan. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. So somebody's listening and they want to dive deeper into all these concepts. They want to understand their full story, they want to have a better work-life balance, they want to manage the burnout and make sure that they're doing the things that they're doing the right tasks, right? Um, what's your encouragement? Where do they start? What do you really want them to focus on? What's your you know, best advice?
SPEAKER_07:I mean, definitely take the assessments because I think that's gonna give you a really nice, um, just a good little starting point, a little playbook. Um, diving in, just remaining curious. I think taking one, like it's an overwhelming amount of information about yourself, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:So even like taking it in chunks and just, you know, you don't have to figure it all out at once, but taking it in chunks and kind of noticing how that shows up for you during the day, um, seeing where those pain points are and like, oh, wow, that actually does drain me. And I never realized it before. And so once you're able to start taking um just kind of a self-examination of that, then you can begin to work on those things internally. And growth takes time. Just like, what gives me energy? What gives me passion? Like, what am I actually passionate about? What do I, how do I value my time? Where do I like spending it? Um, just asking those questions are going to get you a little further down the road in that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:That was really great. I'm trying to think of anything to add. I think I think too, just being patient with yourself, like once you are noticing all of this, like noticing it in real time, because that that, like Casey said, that takes time. Yeah. Just seeing, okay, this really is how I'm wired. This is a situation, and I maybe didn't handle it the way I wanted, but now with this information, I can, you know, handle it better the next time. And I think getting others' perspective too, like Sherry, get your friends to take this, share results, compare, contrast, like whether you have a partner, parents, whoever, get them to take it, and you can all see how similar and different you are, and that just kind of helps you have a sounding board as well. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and so I I took the the assessments. Um, I think I don't know. Do you remember Marty? I think I was a facilitator and the Benevolent Bridge. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so I told Marty, I said, you know, it. Was a little tricky for me. I kind of had to think about who I am outside of work because I'm solo, like completely solo. Um, but what I thought was really interesting is, you know, again, going back to what y'all are talking about, like knowing the things that drain me, knowing where I feel like excited and energized, not only in my work life, because since I'm solo, but like, I mean, I've got to work with people all the time. Like I'm managing soccer teams and I'm going to school events or whatever. But again, it goes back to the first thing y'all said. It tells the full story of who you are. And so I can even see in those situations, maybe it's not my, you know, nine to five, but it's who I am in any of these situations where I have to work with other people. So I say all of that because maybe you're not in a traditional work environment when you think of a work team. This is still really valuable information because nobody's completely isolated 100% of the time in every single environment. You are having to work with people in some capacity, in some way. And this is valuable information. It just brings that awareness of who you are in those dynamics and where you're going to shine and where you're going to feel drained. Um, so I say all that because it was a little hard for me to conceptualize that, but then I kind of just had to think, okay, what are the other environments where this makes sense? And and and there are, there are very many.
SPEAKER_05:And it kind of goes into that ripple effect, like how you show up when you're working versus home. It just all writes together. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. All right. Before we get to our self-care question, is there anything that we didn't cover in the meat of the topic that y'all wanted to cover?
SPEAKER_05:I will say one thing to kind of go off of this. Um, because I know in your lane, you're really just you're one solo shop person. And I think we actually are probably gonna anticipate working with a lot of people that are in that role and about to bring in more help. I think that's kind of our sweet spot of like, okay, maybe they're a team of two, even just a team of one, being like, I gotta hire a business partner or an assistant, or like I can't do this all alone. And I think that's kind of our sweet spot of like, okay, let's help you actually build the team that you need and a team that's gonna help you thrive and you be the leader for these people. How's that all gonna go? I think that's another way in which we use this information.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, because then I can know, like if I needed an assistant or whatever, needed somebody to help me, I'm gonna know what I need to look for so that I can do the things that are the right work for me and I don't have to do the work that drains me. Yeah, no, absolutely. Super helpful. Because I think for when I think about myself, you know, I I until this conversation, honestly, I don't think I would have put that much thought into it. You want to help me? Great, come on. But now you're available and I don't have to pay you a lot, great. Yeah, I got it right. Yep. Um, but no, knowing where I have the strengths, because I'm gonna want to do that work and I'm not gonna want to let go of that work. So, but if I'm hiring somebody that's good at the same things, they're gonna want to do what I'm doing. And I'm not that what are we doing then? Like, why did I hold you? This is a waste of everybody's time. So yeah, no, absolutely. I think that's super helpful to have that information. Yeah, good, good.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so I want to ask a two-parter with the self-care question. So Neil kind of touched on it a little bit as we were talking, but what are like one or two things that you would recommend that people do to take care of themselves well in their workplace, in their work life?
SPEAKER_05:I think you have to do like head, heart, and gut combination of self-care. Like you can't just pick one. Okay. You can't just do the, oh, I'm gonna work out and I'll be okay. Like, I think you've got to do like the body, the physical. I think you've got to do something for your mind, like whether that's having a conversation or you know, catching up with friends or stimulate or like listening to an audiobook, whatever it is. Like health for brain, health for body, and health for heart. So whether it's you know, more relational moments or I'm trying to think of more emotional related self-care, but just trying to encompass all three because I think if you at least try, then it's a little bit more holistic than just okay, I'm just gonna meditate and be done. It's like you need to, but it may not be enough.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I like that, Marty. Mine, I mean, I go all in, and I do this because I have been in so many seasons of burnout, um, not just in work, but as a mom, as you know, I care for I have three kids and they're all neurodivergent. And one has, you know, extreme, he's intellectually disabled, so he has a lot of special needs. And I got to a place where I had covered up my stuff so deeply, just shoving everything under the rug that I completely collapsed and burnt out. And so I went hard and like, okay, I don't need just a massage or go get my nails done. Like, I needed to shut it all off. And so about four years ago, and I try to do this once a month, but I will turn off my electronics, let my husband know where I am. So, like, you know, if I you don't hear from me in like the next five hours.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Um, but I turn everything off and I turn my mind off, and I just sit somewhere pretty for four to five hours. It's like my silent retreat. And we have a lot of springs here in in central Florida, so that's one of my favorite things to do. But um, it's amazing what will come up for you. It's the most, it's challenging, especially for me, because I just don't do well sitting. Like the two-hour mark comes around and it's like an itch, and I'm like, ah, what is happening in the world? Um, but it also is so challenging because your mind has to settle. Like you aren't giving it space to do anything but. And the other day I did this and I was sitting there just looking at the lake for like an hour, just staring at the lake, not even writing in my journal. I wasn't doing anything, but just looking at the lake. And I'm watching the ripples kind of come forward and everything. And you, you know, you you pay more attention to the sounds around you. So in that way, it is kind of a more holistic experience because you're all of your senses are completely heightened because there's nothing competing. There's no competing noise, no competing voices aside from your own. And as I'm like watching the ripples on the lake, this eagle flies down, swoops in, gets a fish, and then just swiftly flies away. And it was so beautiful. And I would have completely missed it. Yeah, if I was doing if my head was down on my phone or anything different. Um, but it just took being still and like the great glory that shows up when you do, just take that time for yourself. And I think everyone needs some form of a mental day where they can just check out, like brain off, let me be.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:And you cannot create from a place of overwhelm. And we walk around overwhelmed so much. And if you were in a place where you're needing to create, try that because it will open up. So, like, don't go with the expectation of creating, like, go with the expectation of just eating, and then creating will come later.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. Well, because what you're doing, I mean, mental health in the mental health world, that emotional regulation is rooted in our five senses. And that is kind of the the playbook, if you will, if I'm gonna use y'all's language. Um, if somebody is feeling emotionally flooded or dysregulated, that is always kind of my go-to is to coach, check in with all five senses. Like, what do you see? What do you smell? What do you feel? Right. And so, like what you're saying, Casey, is by cutting all of those other stimulations off, you're able to just be immersed in your senses. And that's such a beautiful grounding tool by just kind of shutting everything off so that you can experience your whole self in a much more natural way.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And and there's a um, there's something I've used in the past called Snap. Have you ever heard of Snap? So it's like um this can be very helpful when you're at work. Uh, if you're in like a very stressful work environment and you're around a lot of people, and maybe something's come up for you personally or at work, it doesn't matter, you know, whatever's coming up for you in the moment, and it just feels really overwhelming. And you can't run away for four hours. You can stop. And I recommend like walking outside for a minute, maybe even taking off your shoes and just letting your feet like be grounded. Because you mentioned grounded, that brought brought that to my mind of like just put your feet on the grass and just get grounded. So stop and then notice like what am I feeling right now? Now that I've stopped, like, what am I feeling? Like, what what's around me? Um, what am I noticing about you know what's coming up? Where's where am I feeling it? Right. And then assessing the situation. So then you're like kind of like assessing and asking if it's true. Like, is this, you know, thing that's coming up, is it true? And then, like, is it really true though? Like, yeah, what are you doing? Am I just thinking that it's true? Right. What are the facts? So then ask, and then P is pivot. So then you're able to be like, okay, I don't have to feel this overwhelmed right now and get a plan. Like it's like pivot in a plan, right? So where you're able to be like, okay, I've got to go back into work. I have three more hours left. Here's what I'm gonna do afterward. Or it's just pivoting for the moment, but it it centers you enough that you're not gonna respond to that email in a bad way. Right. You're not going to, you know, go off in your coworker because you're having this emotional thing that's happening that she knows nothing about. Um, you're able to reassess yourself and snap out of it. So that's what I love that like analogy.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my God. That's it right there. That is yes. That microphone. Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, yes. I need that written down on my wall. That's it right now. The ask part or like the is it true part.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Okay, so Casey, you'll probably need to do a TED talk on that. Can we add that? Maybe you give Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:I don't think I'm I'm not the first person to come up. I'll have to credit the right person because it wasn't me, but I've been doing it for so long now.
SPEAKER_03:If you're the creator of Snap, comment. You added your own flair, you know, like yeah, true. Casey's version of Snap. Okay, any other personal things that y'all do to take care of yourselves well these days. Marty, have you been to a nickelback concert lately?
SPEAKER_04:I still to this day. That is one of my favorite concerts. It was so good. It was so good. It was so fun.
SPEAKER_05:I don't care where they are next. Like, if we can go to it, we're going again because it was amazing. Oh, it was amazing.
SPEAKER_03:Casey, how do you feel about nickelbag?
SPEAKER_07:Great. Listen, 90, there's nothing like 90s music. So like all of it's just it's good.
SPEAKER_03:I use your rant about nickelback as an example for people all the time. Because it was a good one. Like it was something like I love nickelback and I don't care who knows it.
SPEAKER_05:You know? And I just think I don't think some justice because they got so much hate. And then it's not worth it. There are worse. There are worse things.
SPEAKER_03:They're definitely worse things than nickelback. Okay. Uh y'all are the best. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to share all of these resources with people. Okay, so how do people find you? Um, how do they work with you? I think y'all have a newsletter on your website. Like, tell us all the things that we need to know to stay connected with you. Um, and if somebody wants to work closely with y'all on, you know, their work team or whatever, what do we need to know? How do they connect you?
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, we have uh Instagram, it's the Work Ethos. We also, you know, we have a website, workethos.com that has our tools on it, our work intelligence index and our work style DNA. So both the tools that we've talked about. Um, we also have a newsletter and a podcast coming out soon. And I highly recommend signing up for the newsletter because we have something really special that we're gonna be hopefully launching in the fall for women founders specifically.
SPEAKER_06:Okay.
SPEAKER_07:Um, and so it would be really great to catch up on the newsletter. So you can keep keep a bridge of that.
SPEAKER_05:If you like TikTok, I'm coach Marty underscore work ethos. Silly fun videos. Awesome.
SPEAKER_03:So y'all work with teams of people. Yeah. And y'all go through these different assessments and help them sort of come up with their roadmap too. Okay. Okay. Awesome.
SPEAKER_05:I think our sweet spot is probably small business owners. That's really like that's why we're launching at least for women founded first, just because we're we're in that boat. We are women founded small business. Yes, yeah. Um, so small business owners, because we understand this isn't always the priority. The priority is just getting the business going. And so I think that's really who we can help quickly the most. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Awesome. Well, thank you all.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, you can also um like just reach out to us because we're friendly people. Yeah. And we would love even if you just want to hop on a call and like, hey, you don't uh really feel your result, like we're happy to help you out.
SPEAKER_05:So okay, that's that is something I'm very passionate about. That's my my favorite. So you read your result and you're like, eh, kinda, like we have a whole process we can verify.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so take baby first step, go to the website, take the assessment, read the assessment. If you're uncertain of your results, reach out and y'all will help navigate that. Okay, awesome. Awesome, awesome. Yep. Well, thank y'all. Uh, I'm so excited to share all these resources. I'm so excited for the podcast. I know I've said that a million times, but I know it's been in the work, so I can't wait. We are too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, thank you guys. Thanks for coming on and sharing all the things. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. I will be carrying the definition of burnout as not too much work, but the wrong kind of work with me forever now. It is imprinted on my soul. I hope this conversation gave you some real food for thought about how we approach work, mental health, and the dynamics that shape our teams. Remember, knowing your strengths, your values, and what drains you isn't just good for you, it's good for the whole working team. When we create space for empathy and open communication, we don't just work harder, we work smarter and healthier. If you're curious on diving deeper into these topics, keep an eye out for the launch of Margie and Casey's new podcast, Work Intelligently. I promise I will keep y'all posted, but be sure to follow along with them so that you don't miss when Work Intelligently launches. It's going to be full of practical tools, powerful conversations, and the kind of insights that help you show it better for yourself and your team. Head over to the show notes to access their website and social links so you don't miss anything they're creating. You can also take their assessments that are super eye-opening when we're talking about aligning our strengths and values in our work life. Work ethos only creates insightful, encouraging, and oh so accessible content, I promise. And what about that self-care acronym that Casey shared, SNAP? That's when I'm going to have to bring it to the therapy room. I'm just gonna have to borrow it. And hey, if this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend or teammate. This is just another way that we can take care of ourselves and our work environment and teams well. Let's keep the conversation going. The information included in this podcast does not replace that of your own professional therapy. If you believe you're in need of professional assistance, please reach out to the medical community in your area. The Couch Next Door with Candace Fraser was created by me, Candace Fraser, graphics by Jason Fraser, music by Josh Bissell. You can find the show notes and affiliate links on CandaceFraserLPC.com. Click on the tab Podcast and you'll find all podcast-related content there. I'd love to connect with you on Instagram. Find me at Candace FraserLPC. Give the show a rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. This really helps get the show to more listeners in the world, and I would be so grateful to see what you all are loving. Until next time, show kindness to yourself and those around you.
