The Couch Next Door
Happy Hour meets Therapy on The Couch Next Door. Each episode blends real conversations, laughter, and a touch of courage as we dive into life’s messy, beautiful, and downright unpredictable moments. From relationships and mental health to personal growth and everything in between, we’re here to keep it real, relatable, and refreshingly honest. Each episode is hosted by Candice Fraser, a licensed professional counselor with a distinctive approach to therapy and a mission to inspire and equip her audience through compelling stories and conversations within the mental health landscape. Candice's couch is a comfortable place to learn how to care for ourselves and those around us well. Come hang out!
The Couch Next Door
ADHD Later in Life: Truths, Tools, and Aha Moments (with Dr. Jennifer Dall)
In this conversation, Dr. Jennifer Dall shares her extensive experience in education and her personal journey with ADHD. She emphasizes the importance of understanding ADHD from a holistic perspective, particularly in women who may be diagnosed later in life. The discussion covers practical tools like the ADHD SOS card deck, the significance of emotional regulation, and the need for self-acceptance and kindness. Dr. Dall advocates for recognizing the impact of hormonal changes on ADHD symptoms and encourages individuals to explore their coping strategies and seek help when needed. In this conversation, we discuss practical strategies for coping with ADHD, including the concept of 'ADHD plus one,' which highlights the need to consider other mental health challenges alongside ADHD.
Connect with Dr. Jennifer:
30 Quick and Easy Hacks for ADHD
Recommendations from Dr. Jennifer:
Climbing the Walls: a fantastic recent podcast about a woman’s journey to learn more about women and ADHD
Women With Attention Deficit Disorder by Sari Solden
-Journeys Through Addulthood
A Radical Guide for Women with ADHD
Relevant episodes by The Couch Next Door
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Hi there, and welcome to the Couch Next Door, where a happy hour meets a therapy session. I'm your host, Candace Fraser, a licensed professional counselor. Each week I'm honored to have a friend come sit on my couch and we'll dive into an area of mental health that is impacting their world. We'll definitely laugh, probably cry, and maybe go on a rant or too, because we are all humans full of emotions. Come hang out with us. Dr. Jennifer Dahl is a grief-informed neurodivergence specialist and the founder of ADHD holistically. Diagnosed with ADHD in her 50s after years of being told she couldn't possibly have it, Dr. Jennifer knows firsthand the challenges of navigating misinformation and masking symptoms, especially for women diagnosed later in life. Now she specializes in helping others identify what truly works for them, focusing on practical, quick-fix strategies that simplify daily life without relying on medication or a one-size-fits-all approach. With over 25 years of experience as an educator and a background in ADHD coaching, yoga instruction, and grief education, Dr. Jennifer offers a holistic, deeply personal approach to helping neurodivergent individuals thrive. Y'all, I had some real aha moments in this conversation with Dr. Jennifer Dahl. As you'll hear, I open up a bit about my own personal journey, specifically getting an ADHD diagnosis in my 40s. It's a topic that hits close to home for me, but it's also something I've been seeing more and more in the therapy room, especially among women later in life. This isn't a new thing. ADHD has always been there, but thanks to people like Dr. Jennifer and the growing conversations around neurodiversity, we're finally starting to see it more clearly. And let me tell you, Dr. Jennifer is truly one of our biggest allies in this space. She gets it, both professionally and personally. And her insight is a gift. As you listen, I want to invite you to be curious. Curious about how some of these patterns might show up in your life. Curious about the way you talk to yourself when things feel hard. Curious about how you see others who may be struggling with the same invisible challenges. And most importantly, let this be a space where you extend grace to yourself and to those around you. All right, here is my conversation with Dr. Jennifer Dahl. All right, Dr. Jennifer Dahl. Welcome to the couch next door. Thank you, Candace. I'm so happy to be here. This is really exciting. Yes, I'm happy to have you. Um so tell us a little bit about yourself, like who you are, what you do, um, maybe even a little brief overview of why you do the work that you do.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, sure. Um, I'm Dr. Jennifer Dahl. I spent many years, what 25 years maybe, in education. I was a teacher. I did a little bit of administrative work, worked a lot with special education and some general education, mostly high school. I liked secondary and high school best. They were my my people. Um I was your typical, I think, overachieving Gen Xer and did not understand why. Um so I had a background in ADHD. I taught students, I've taken classes, I I've done all of it. And over time, little little things just keep clicking. And I think part of it was also we learned more, you know. So many people think about ADHD, and it's that eight-year-old boy who you know can't control themselves and can't shut up and all those kinds of things. And so anything else was not seen as that. Um so over time, the just kept clicking and clicking, and I learned more and more, and I finally got the nerve and the I guess internal power to actually be very assertive with my doctors and say, I think we need to talk about this. And we did, and it was like, yeah, yeah, you have ADHD. And so the process of that it was not the end, you know, it was not like, oh, all the answers are here. Um wouldn't that be nice? It was, it would be, it was another chapter, another book. It was like, okay, here we go. You're going into a whole nother part of life. Um, and I left education partly because I really wanted to start working with people on my own terms. You know, in in the schools, you're you've got certain requirements, certain ways you have to do things. And I really wanted to just be able to work with people. I started off working with students and developed more and more of an interest in working with um adults, particularly women, um, just because I know I know where they've been and I know the how much important how important it is to me when I meet somebody who um is a little bit ahead of me and I can learn from them. Absolutely. So I have taken time. I I quit teaching, I started my own business, which has been its own journey. Um and I've gone into really wanting to help and work with that along the way. Many other things have happened in the past five years, uh, which has led me to understand not just ADHD, but what I call ADHD plus one, which is how other things really impact all of it. And we're gonna talk about that because I love I love yes, how you how you look at that. Um including how we see ourselves. Um I really want to be, I don't know, your sister, your friend, your whatever, that's like, hey, I'm a couple of steps ahead of you. Yeah and let's figure this out because I believe in you. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:So your company's ADHD holistically. Yes. Okay. And so why is that name so important to what you're doing?
SPEAKER_01:Um, because I tend to look at things in kind of an eclectic, holistic way. I um I am not here to downplay our medical environment or medication or anything, but I also truly believe that we have to look at so many parts of ourselves, all parts of ourselves. And so it's kind of this holistic view of all the components I can control or I can work on or I can learn about, and looking at and looking at all of it and getting the big picture. And so that's why holistically spoke to me is a word.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I love that. Well, and and uh we're gonna link your website because I think your website is I mean, just even looking at it first first of all, it's visually just very pretty and very well organized. I just, yeah, it's very easy to find with that. Well, whoever you hired, you did a good job hiring. Um, but but also and and I don't know, let's let's talk really briefly about your card deck that you created. Can we talk about that just real quick?
SPEAKER_01:We certainly talk about that. Yeah. The ADHDSO's card deck. Um it was created as yet another way to get information out in a manageable, manageable sort of system. So it's a card deck that um presents kind of just scenarios that are specific and yet vague. So even if you're like, no, this has not happened to me, you may be able to replace some other words and be like, oh yeah, this isn't happening at work, this is happening at home. And it gives you some suggestions, real quick suggestions and a little bit more information. Um, and some quick hints. So, I mean it's it's a card deck, so it's not a novel. It's right, it's down and dirty. Um, it's in areas like work and relationships and organization and emotional regulation. Some of the big ones that really hit us with ADHD. And so it's, you know, it's card deck size, so you can carry it in your bag, or you can keep it quiet. You can you can do the tarot card thing where you pull out three those games, or you can be this just happened at work. Let's look through here. Or you can pull one out and and journal and talk to yourself, like, hey, is this something that I do well? Is this something that I really need to work on? Is this something I just can't deal with right now? So let's pull another card. Um but it was so much fun, and it it's just really been an exciting adventure. And I've heard from people who are using them in so many different ways, um, even though I sort of made them for adults. I have, you know, contacts in education, and one of them is a school psychologist who works with secondary students who's like, I'm gonna start using this because you know you can pull them out. Like, so this is what's going on in your life. And how does this sound to you? You know, is there anything you could take out of this?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's like I'm I mean, I don't want to say a quick fix, but it is something like you can, like you're saying, you pull and it can, I mean, like you said, it's down and dirty. We don't have to do a whole lot of processing, there's not a whole lot of barriers you have to overcome to to access that tool, but it it sort of lays things out that will be happening.
SPEAKER_01:They're just little things, or you know, like if if there's really something that's impacting you, go look in that section.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So good. And I love how you have it broken down into different parts of somebody's life too, that that they're they can grab from that particular area to be able to get that quick hack. Yeah. Love it. What a what a fascinating, fantastic idea. Such an easy tool.
SPEAKER_01:And I am actually thinking about making one for um teens, free teens, you know, just changing. Yes. Please do. Yeah. You know, just enough of a of a tweak of a different splendid. Right, right, right, right, yeah. For school, because they're learning so much more. They're probably, even if they've known for a long time they have ADHD, chances are the people around them don't know that much about it. Um so then they're learning about themselves. And I think one of the things is kind of a tangent, but as I've learned more about ADHD and I've learned things, it's made connections like, oh, that's why this happened, or that's why I do this.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And yes.
SPEAKER_01:Then if you can, you can allow a little more kindness in. Okay. Because you're not broken.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Big difference. Well, and with those younger younger generations too, like there's a lot more of a parental piece to it, right? And and even just, you know, I I find myself as a therapist sometimes having to educate the parents on that because I might see certain um, you know, indicators that maybe we need to investigate that. But a lot of times, kind of like going back to what you were saying, parents might say, well, but sh, you know, he or she is fine. Like there's no behavioral issues, her grades are fine, his grades are fine.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:But there's other parts that I'm noticing in a little bit more of an intimate setting. Um, so even that education piece to to kind of broaden the horizon of what ADHD actually is.
SPEAKER_01:And it can also be a really good talking point, whether you're a teen or an adult with your with your boss or your friends or your partner or whoever, like, you know, I saw this card and it just went whoa. Yeah. And I'm having a hard time explaining this to you. But this is something that happened, and this is why, and this is what I'm trying to do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Giving words, giving language to somebody's experience so so other people can have a better understanding of that. Yeah. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Okay. Well, keep us posted because Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So that is and I started working on the teen and then, you know, the ADHD. But every time somebody says yes, then I think I just do it.
unknown:Just do it.
SPEAKER_00:Come on, just do it. Yeah. All right, Dr. Jennifer. Well, we want to get a get to know you a little bit better. So, what's your rant for today? What do you have to rant rant today about?
SPEAKER_01:We kind of dove into this a little bit. My rant is that I think that we just need to be so much nicer to ourselves. I think we need to accept whether it's ADHD or your listeners have have other things. And you know, we can have many things. We can have a whole slew of things. Um, and learn, be willing to learn and have that honesty and grace towards ourselves. So that, you know, yes, I have an ADHD and I do this, and this is part of me. Um, and maybe I can work on it, but maybe you can accept it a little bit better, and maybe we can work on it. And and going along with that, really figuring out what you need, you know, what is it that you need and standing up for yourself and advocating for yourself. And you know, you've probably had you've had this your whole life and you've told yourself all kinds of stories about it because you've heard other things, and maybe there's parts of your life you need to change or cut out, you know. If somebody is just simply not able to be supportive, yeah, that's on them, not on you. And and just the more you can you can learn and have grace with yourself. That that is what I want people to just know, and and not changing it all at once. So let's have grace, let's take a little tiny bit. That's what the card deck is about. The other things I do, I'm really starting to do is ADHD. We want to buy a book and we want to like fix it all tomorrow. Yes, or yesterday. Right. And that doesn't work for most kids so far. I have not seen anybody, including myself, that this has worked for. Yeah, yeah. I really focus on, I really think the more little things. Find something, find something and start there. And celebrate it. And then remember that little nugget of of what you learned, what you did well, how you're making progress.
SPEAKER_00:And like you said, we're not broken. You know, you're not broken. You are not a broken person to be fixed. There are things that you can do, kindness that you can extend to yourself, shifts, and I don't we'll talk about that, shifts that you can make, um, just to be able to adjust to how your brain is operating. It doesn't mean that it's wrong.
SPEAKER_01:I can come up with a hundred great ideas. Yes. They don't all have to happen. And then also there's there's things just like everybody else that I don't do as well or I don't like. And it's okay to ask somebody else, to hire somebody else to not do it. You know, we get into sometimes get into this, I have to do it all, and I have to do it all perfectly. And part of that's the masking and wanting to present, and that is exhausting and not good for our health, any kind of our health. Um, and so yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So so what I hear you saying, yeah. So what I hear you saying around this rant, like to be kinder to ourselves is we don't have to do everything. Right. Be aware of the narratives, right? Like what are the stories you've been telling to yourself about yourself, because you've had ADHD this whole time. But I mean, there can be some pretty cruel uh messages that we're internalizing if we don't know some of the worst are maybe in here. Yeah, so just being gentle, being kind, being graceful, um, and don't do it all at once. Like small, small bite-sized chunks. Yes, yes, yeah. Yes. And and check out Dr. Jennifer's website. She's got a lot of really great tools and that that are very easy and tangible, and like, yeah, you can do this, you can do this.
SPEAKER_01:And it may feel like, well, this is nothing, but you know. Do that one thing.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Feel a little success. Right.
SPEAKER_00:We feel better when we just do the one thing. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. Not such a good encouragement. I mean, like you said, for anything, but specifically, you know, today we're talking about ADHD. Um, and so yeah, just just try. Just try the one thing. See what happens. Uh right. Well, let's get into it. I know we kind of have already jumped in a little bit, but um, yeah, so we are talking about ADHD specifically later in life. Um, and this has been, you know, as a therapist in practice, has been an interesting sort of trend and pattern that I've started to notice in my clients, um, specifically women, um, more in their 40s. They may have, you know, full-time job, maybe a couple of kids, you know, they've got a lot of things going on, um, and noticing that they're just not keeping up like they once felt like they could and did. Um, and so, you know, just seeing in my clients their exploration of this ADHD diagnosis, which, you know, that was one of the reasons I personally thought that I needed to explore it because I started to see myself in some of these things that my clients were saying. Then my youngest ended up getting diagnosed with ADHD. So I was like, okay, I really probably need to look at this within myself. And so, you know, speaking to the stories that we tell ourselves, you know, I was a good student. I didn't have behavior problems, but school felt really, really hard for me. Um, and, you know, being in my 40s now and and feeling a little bit more emotionally overwhelmed by some things, I did some digging and investigating. And turns out I do have ADHD and I've had it all along. So this topic is very personal to me, but also again, just seeing how in in my profession and the clients that I'm serving, there's just not a lot of information about this in this particular stage of our life. And so that's really a focus, you know, that that you've sort of honed in on is looking at that later in life and and in women. So as adults, what are some indicators that we need to be aware of? Indicators or symptoms to be aware of that that might say that might point to an ADHD diagnosis.
SPEAKER_01:Well, well, some of it is, you know, emotional regulation can be a big thing for us. You may have been told that you're too emotional. Uh things may happen and it it hits you or hits you hard, and other people don't don't validate that. And so this could be something. And then when you think about it, like with a lot of these things, if you really sit and get quiet and think about it, it's been there all along, going back. Yeah. Um managing things, the the organization, the issues with time, and it's not just, you know, it's easy to say, oh, people with ADHD are late, but it's it's not that, it's this bizarre different feel about time. Time hits us different, time is harder to manage. Um, you know, all of those those sorts of things, you know, organization, task initiation. One thing is you may find that you are really good at some things, like interest-based being uh for things that are interest-based that that match our interests, we can be all in on. Yeah. And then there's other things that we don't have interest in that we cannot explain at a level to which we are not interested in. And this thinking back, this may go back to school. There may have been a subject, and this may have been like, you know, some of us had learned how to do school, right? Yes. We learned how to do that.
SPEAKER_00:That's exactly what I did. Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:And there were classes that I liked, and there were subjects that I liked, and I could do them, and I could do them at the last minute. I could write essays at the last minute and get A's. Okay. Okay. But there were some subjects. I it wasn't that I wasn't good. Even math, I was good at it, but I didn't really care. And so then people, teachers, parents, even friends may look at this and like make assumptions like, oh, you're just being lazy here, you're just being difficult here. Because you're so good here, you're so on it here. Maybe at work you hold it all together. Just like with our kids, sometimes like at school, they hold it all together and they get home and they fall apart, right? Because they don't know the rules. It's different. So I would say looking at things like that, and what I've really started talking about is there's so much information out there. Well, there's like quizzes.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Information, we're still getting information. Research flags, yes, you know, research, right, like quizzes or podcasts or talking to people. If you're hearing things about ADHD and things are being triggered in your brain, and you're thinking, oh, oh, I would start by looking at those sorts of things. Why is this speaking to you? Has this always been there? And honestly, whether you have ADHD or not, is this something that you want to kind of work on making life a little easier around? Like you said, we're not broken, you're not gonna fix it, but there's there's strategies or ways to make it a little bit easier for you and to work with it better. Right, right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, just be curious, right?
SPEAKER_01:When you hear some of these things. Right. So if I'm talking or anybody's talking, because I still hear things, you know, I still read things, I still hear things, or somebody says it in a slightly different way. You know, I say, um, we have a hard time with time and it doesn't resonate, but somebody else says it in a different way, and you're like, yes, that's it. So so think about that, because that's a starting point. Right. Because what we talked about before, we can't, I know we want to fix it all tonight. I know we want to read the book and you know, have the plan. But where's that starting point? So if you're thinking you might have ADHD, why are you thinking that? And start there. Right, right.
SPEAKER_00:Well, okay, so it's funny that you just said that because you mentioned the emotional regulation piece. And I've never heard anybody say it that way. I've heard them say it like over stimulation, right? And so when you say it like that, and I think back to my younger self, I I was I was known to throw some temper tantrums. And so when I think about it in that context of emotional dysregulation and not knowing, I mean, I was an ex I mean, I'm an exploding emotional bomb on at any point. And and it was just looked at as anger. She has anger problems or she has a hot temper.
SPEAKER_01:Right. You're moody, you're emotional, you have anger issues. Yes, not maybe. Yes. Think different and you act different and you have ADHD.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And so as an adult, I started to use that word overstimulated because I could I connected with that because it would just like, you know, there were so many things happening, and then I would just like scream because it was just too much. But when I think about it in those terms that you just used, that's been there all along. And now it's like connecting it to that piece of because of the ADHD brain that I have had all along, just didn't know. And so what did people connect to you?
SPEAKER_01:How did you feel about it? How has that continued? How does it show up now? Yeah. Some of us then were masking even harder, and we keep it in more so that then when I do let it out, it's like way, it's like over. I'm just thinking about something laughing yesterday with somebody. Yeah, right, yeah. You know, holding it, holding in it, holding it in. And whether the other person understands it all is what's going on, which I was I was lucky. This person was like, you know, you you do tend to be overly sensitive, but that's part of you, and that's why this is somebody I met recently later. Yeah, who I think that's also easier sometimes. People like you meet later who didn't know you didn't have this whole history with you, like, oh, you've always been so emotional, you're just you're just like that.
SPEAKER_00:And then that kind of um discards well, then it becomes like your identity, right? Like then I I mean, really, I became the girl that had a hot temper. I mean, like that's how people knew me. Just watch out, you know, she might throw things, and that that became my identity.
SPEAKER_01:But in reality, like temper or you're too emotional. And then if you do go to a doctor and the doctor's not thinking, then it's like here, take, I don't know, an antidepressant and anti-anxiety, which isn't really the issue. Right, right. Right, right, for sure. It's masking or covering a part of it, it's not helping you learn strategies, it's not helping you accept this. Yeah. So then you feel worse about it, perhaps, right? Right, you know, it's a sure you see this in clients.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, because maybe you've done the thing, but it's not again, not fixing it. And so, yeah, what is wrong with me? There's still something wrong with me. And and it that's the thing I often hear like, what's wrong with me? Why can't I get this together? Why can't I get my life together? Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that can be damaging. So damaging.
SPEAKER_01:And if you're 40, 50 years old and that's the story you've heard for the most part. Yeah. That's what's hard.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Well, what is it about diagnosing in women? Why do you think what are some of the reasons why you think that gets that tends to get missed? Maybe it's in starts with when they're younger girls or maybe women, I don't know. What are what is your perspective on that?
SPEAKER_01:My perspective is that first of all, there hasn't traditionally been a lot of research. A lot of the research has been on boys and men by boys and men and has looked at at that. And so, you know, when you consider the lag time, you know, you you know, you know, science is like they have to do the research and they have to look at it and publish it, and it has to get disseminated. So that's a really long time. Right. So the information hasn't been there. Um, we've been misdiagnosed as anger issues, as defiant, as depressed, as anxious, which you may also be also be right. Dealing with the ADHD can make you anxious and depressed and tired and angry. Yeah. Yeah. Um so we're not from a medical standpoint looking at that, and we tend to look at the medical standpoint, right? So if you don't have people in your life and you don't have access to resources that are kind of encouraging you and helping you dive in and find things, it's just looked at that. And so, you know, if if you try to express your feeling overstimulated and you're shot down as being too emotional, you learn, especially girls, right? Not all girls, but girls like in our age, like we've learned to just you mask, you mask it up and you shove it in, and then maybe you self-medicate or you do other things that turn into other riskier behaviors. And again, I'm not saying that everybody does this.
SPEAKER_00:Right, but but it can happen. Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And then but then that's still looked at as something else. You know, you're you're troubled, you're this or that, not what's at the base of this, and maybe it has to do with the executive dysfunction and the just executive the emotional dysregulation from the ADHD in a society that wants you to be like this, right? And you're never really helped and taught and given the space to like, oh, but this is a good part of me. This is good. I can do this and it's good. And yeah, I struggle with this. And so it's okay to ask for help also. It's okay to not do it, it's okay to delegate it, it's okay to pay for it if you can afford it, it's okay to ask, it's okay to trade things, you know. I think that the masking is is when we look at the last, it's not just like today, it's like the last what 40, 50 years of our life. Right. What's been going on in our culture, and it's this is this is how you're supposed to be, and we we take that in, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I think in in our society, I don't want to say that men don't do it, because I'm sure there's a version of that, but we're two ladies talking. Um so I know I know that that masking for men when men speak for me.
SPEAKER_01:Right. I mean, they don't a man can much more eloquently and accurately speak to what it's like for men.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Right. But we I mean, as ladies, especially uh, you know, within the ADHD um diagnosis, that that is something that happens. And, you know, it makes me wonder if have we been forced into that masking because for so long girls didn't have ADHD, right? This is the boys' thing. Um and so you can't possibly have it. So then it's got to be something else. And so you got to like pull it together.
SPEAKER_01:This isn't the right diagnosis for you. You're defiant, you're difficult, you're lazy, especially, you know, I speak for myself, like when you're really good at one thing and then you're not at another. And unless it's like a learning disability, okay. We recognize you have a learning, you can't have a reading disability or something.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Like people don't know what to do with that. So they take it poorly.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right, right. Well, so can you speak a little bit on, you know, I the thing that I often hear from clients, and even when I think about myself, is my coping strategies worked to a point. And then it got to be where I that emotional dysregulation was becoming so difficult for me to manage that I and again hearing these different things, you know, in my ears about potentially an ADHD diagnosis, that I I investigated that a little bit more. So can you speak a little bit to like coping skills that maybe worked for us up to a point that stopped, maybe stopped working or stopped being as effective, and how that can kind of encourage us to do some research and investigating of our own diagnosis?
SPEAKER_01:So I think some of those skills, those coping strategies, especially for those of us who were able to fake it and make it in school, um, is that school went away. Yeah. Right. Nothing else. Or you kept going. Hello at graduate school. Graduate school again. You know, those are the structures that I understood that I could nail. And as I went through further, you know, when you're first in high school and then when you're getting your BA, like there's still classes you don't want to take that you have to take. But if you go on and you get to higher levels, it's all on your hyperfixation. It's all on what you're interested in. You're not going to get a master's or a doctorate in something you hate. Exactly. Yes. Why would you do that? Don't do that. So I think we learn starting early, partly how to be in that. That becomes a huge um structure for us. And then that goes away. And then you add in maybe a job that doesn't. Work like that. You add in relationships, you add in kids, you add in our changing world, yeah, and all of that. And I think it becomes so much, and we get tired. And we're starting to learn how hormones um impact some of this, is which is why sometimes more girls are being diagnosed when they're starting to hit puberty, and that's where starting to come in. And you know, the research is still out, we're still learning so much, but when you start going to perimenopause, menopause, what that's really about, we we don't know. We're trying to learn, but they don't even know that much about menopause anyway. Right. Let alone menopause.
SPEAKER_00:It's an ADHD, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I think that just like in your therapist, so you know, people who've been through trauma or abuse or other things, they they find their strategies that get them through, and then they stop working, right? Because uh their lives have changed, things have changed, they're tired. Um and so, and so some of those strategies they may have worked, but maybe they didn't even work that well. So looking now at what strategies did you have? Do they actually honestly work? Do they still work? What areas do you want to have strategies in? Because again, we can't fix everything. So so is it like the low-hanging fruit you really want to try to work on this and strategies for this, or is it something big like this is really impacting your relationship or your your work, you know, your livelihood? And you really need to figure out a better way to, you know, manage time or manage your emotions, not fix them, but understand and work with it and figure out what you need, what really works with you today, because that can change, right? Right. Um and I think at the base of that is also this acceptance of yourself, which we can have a really hard time with. And believe me, I still work on it. It's it's not done.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:It's I really need this right now. This really works for me right now, and I believe that this is okay. So I'm gonna stand up for myself, which is something that some of us have a hard time doing. I find that it's easier for me to stand up to something I've been dealing with lately and thinking about is I stand up for other people much easier than I stand up for myself, um, which you may understand, or some of your clients totally understand. Yes, yeah, yeah. So I can very relatable all of you with ADHD, but then wait, I'm supposed to do it for myself too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No, okay, so that's that's really helpful. And I want people to hear that too. Like that piece of things change. It like that's life, right? Like things change. So what once worked, or in that particular stage of your life, maybe that worked in that time. But if it doesn't work anymore, again, doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. It just means you've got to figure out how to shift and adjust. Yeah. And it's when we have that insight.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You did have something that worked. Look, in the past this worked. So do we just discard it? Do we change it? You know, maybe it didn't work as well as you thought. You were just getting by. Right. But yeah, and things, things change based on what's going on around you and your health. Yes. Just everything. Right. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and so even thinking about like myself in school in high school, I I've, like you said, I figured out how to do it. It was a lot of memorization. Like I don't really think I learned much. Um, and then when I once I got to to college and really in my graduate program, even though it was focused on what I was interested in, any of those like more scientific, you know, um uh I don't know, like we were talking about the brain, we're talking about stats. Yes, I struggled, really struggled. Um and so I'll never forget when I was talking to my doctor about a potential ADHD diagnosis, like we were talking about what school looked like for me. Um, and she was like, Well, what about work? And I was like, Oh, I don't have a problem with work. She was like, Oh, you got into a job that works with your brain, because I can remember anything anybody tells me. Like if we're in a conversation, it connects. It connects. And so that's how I'm able to be a therapist and not feel like I'm missing things or I'm having to memorize things. Like, that's not what worked in my brain. And this is what works for me now, right? But even thinking about what you're saying, there could be changes, right? That may change at some point in my life, and that's okay. Um, but I'll never forget that she said, like, you found a job that works for you. And so you don't feel that sort of um, you know, that hole um in missing things or missing information or not being able to keep up like I once.
SPEAKER_01:But if you were in a job that was all based on reading something, yes, right, little more. Absolutely. Yes, and to be honest, that's that's kind of why I think continuing an education helped for me is like especially secondary, like there's bells, there's periods. You eat lunch now, you run to the bathroom now, right? Now, and when I quit, in addition to uh there there were some other things going on, but like all structure was right out of the water, and that took a lot of time. Yeah, and so then a lot of kindness and understanding, because when you're used to when you spent most of your life somehow in a in a system, a sure system, being out of that system can be and you look around, you think everybody else knows what they're doing, which they don't either. No, no, right, right, right. You found a job that works for you. But if you were then or if some big change happened and they were like, no, this is how it's gonna be, you might struggle.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, absolutely. And so I think it's important for people to hear that, right? Just because you're not struggling now doesn't mean there might be an there now may not be a change, there may be a change that shifts that. But again, that's okay. Like you you can do this, you just have to know that information and know where that might need to guide, guide your decision making. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And even being a parent, you know, when they're this age, this is what being a parent looks like. And then this, and that and then as they get older and it gets wilder and crazier, and there's less information, like they leave. Right, right, right. Yeah. That and when you've got the emotional dysregulation and yeah, and all of that, and maybe not positive memories of your whole situation, you know. Yeah, that's it. These are all things that kind of come down, which goes back to the 40, 50-year-old woman who is there's a lot of this.
SPEAKER_00:It's a lot of well, yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of moving pieces for sure. Yes. Um, okay, well, let's talk about your contact concept of ADHD plus one, which I I like how you put that. I don't know, it just makes it make sense in my brain. Um, so why would you say it's important for us to consider other diagnoses along with ADHD?
SPEAKER_01:Because they all intermingle. For me, um the plus one is is like some some grief. I had some some trauma and some grief. My husband died in a traumatic way uh in the last few years. I then um I got hit by a guy on a bike and ended up in the trauma ward with um head injury. And so looking at all of these, so it's this this lived experience thing, which this I'm two steps ahead of you, and and realizing that if the traits of say grief are this and the traits of ADHD are this, or the traits of, and they know there's a lot of talk of autism in ADHD, you know, they're not they're not separate, they're like Venn diagrams, and maybe you have many Venn diagrams. Sure. So uh difficulty um organizing time in ADHD looks like this, and with grief, it can look like this. So it may not even matter which is which. It's sure what's right. Figuring out what's helping you, and some of this has to do with the grief, and some of this has to do with the ADHD. Um, you know, part of this came about in I found a really good grief therapist, and she's great at that, but she also I've been teaching her a lot about ADHD. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, this understanding of, you know, she'd say things or we talk about things and be like, okay, but that's not an ADHD thing, that's just not gonna work. And so understanding I don't know if I'm being clear about this, but the ADHD plus one is like you're bringing plus one to a party. Okay. So yeah, you got ADHD, but probably pretty much all of us have at least some other plus one, if nothing else, it's stress or yes, right, absolutely kind of thing. Um, so yes, the ADHD and yes, the whatever the one or the two other things are, and bringing them together and seeing what's the same, what's a variation, what's totally different, but you still need to deal with both of them. Right. So you can't just like it's not just ADHD. It's not just that you need to eat more protein if you're right. Right, right. Like you said, there's many moving pieces and really acknowledging that and you know, going into talking about ADHD, first of all, from the lived experience and also from the understanding that, you know, I have a couple plus ones, and you may have plus ones that I might not understand, but I understand that it's there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, right, right. Well, because if if you have an ADHD diagnosis and a plus one, kind of like what you were saying in your grief therapy, like she may be telling you to do certain things, and and maybe that works for grief, but that's not gonna work for the ADHD. Or maybe that's gonna work for the ADHD, but not necessarily the grief. And so when we have a fuller picture of what is going on for you emotionally and physiologically, then you're gonna have more tools, right? And that's what we want. We want people to have more tools and more understanding of how to use those tools. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So sometimes in being in therapy, maybe telling someone strongly encouraging them to just do something because they maybe you think they need that push. Right. With ADHD, sometimes that just do something, I'm pushing back. You know, right.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I think that's a good point. Because like depression, right? If somebody's lack that la has fatigue or low motivation or whatever, we may just be like, okay, well, let's just come up with one goal or let's come up with a list of things. If they also have ADHD with that, that might be really overwhelming. And now we've got something else to deal with. Like, how do we prioritize those? Right. Right. Great. I have a list of 10 things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not doing none of them.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not doing any of them. Yes. Yes. Well, and even to hear even to like think about, you know, therapists to be able to assess that, you know, like to kind of suss out these different mental health diagnoses along with ADHD. Because again, you could, I hate to say it, but you could be doing some damage, right? If you're not factoring that in.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. At a time when whatever is the most prominent, if ADHD is the most prominent, if the grief, if the depression is the most prominent. Um, and you're not allowing for that space that we need to take this into a little bit more consideration to get it more into homeostasis. You know, to, okay, right, right now the grief is really, really hitting you. Right or the ADHD is really hitting you.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it can help you to know what to, like you're saying, focus on and be able to address that. And but also, I mean, I think we all need to remember that there, the other things also contribute to it, right? And so knowing that along with whatever it is that you're doing.
SPEAKER_01:That thought just came to me, like, like when you're sick, you know, like sometimes they like there's medicines you can get that have everything they have on it. Right. Decongestant and and a hist, like I have everything. And if you're taking something for everything, but maybe you need to just be taking individual medications. Right. Right. You just want my mind's not working, but like you just want a decongestant or an expectorant. You don't want like some of those like have everything in the world. Right. And then you're just like, hope we're medicated. And you're not dealing with, okay, right now the cough is the worst. Right. So we can't do anything else until we get the cough under control so you can sleep, so you can get healthy. So these other things can happen.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah. Well, and I also think that's good for people to hear if they're going into therapy or they're going into their doctor for diagnosis or or whatever, to kind of just again be curious. Where are you finding the biggest obstacles? Like, where are you finding the biggest biggest struggles for yourself so that you can know what's most important to address first?
SPEAKER_01:Why are you here? Why are you what made you actually finally pick up the phone and make the phone call? Right. Um, because ADHD, depression, whatever they're huge terms. It could be so many things.
SPEAKER_00:And you like, like you said, uh so many overlapping parts of that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then it's the professional's job to figure out, right, based on the symptoms that you're talking about. I also know that the professionals don't get a lot of training in it.
SPEAKER_01:And you're also overwhelmed and tired and all that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. So true. So true. So, so I mean, what you're also saying without saying is you need to agate for yourself. Yes. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And you need to know yourself. And you know, I was I was lucky that I have all this education. But even with all of that, it took me a really long time. Right. To like listen to myself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Because people would say, oh no, you can't, you can't, you can't possibly. You have a master's, you have a doctor. You like you do all these things. Look at you. You look like you're put together. Except for those times when you're falling apart and you're overly emotional. And yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it couldn't be, it couldn't be ADHD, right? No, no. You're just difficult sometimes. Oh man. Okay. So we talked about your card deck. Um, can you share a little bit of some like some easy hacks that that people might, you know, kind of be able to hear today? And and and let's talk to, and this so this may be a little bit of a two-parter, about the subtle shift that you talk about. Um, you know, along with those hacks and and kind of introduce listeners to this concept of the shut subtle shift.
SPEAKER_01:So the subtle told I have to slow down when I say this. The subtle shift kind of goes along with those ideas of just hacks, small steps, um, little micro things. So if we try to go in and I'm going to do everything to change my organization policy, right? Like I don't know about you, like I'm gonna go through my clothes. And I know there are those systems that talk about pulling everything out of your closet and going through it piece by piece. What I can tell you is that everything's going to be on my floor for the next three months because I'm gonna start it and get distracted and overwhelmed, so that and I don't want to do it anymore.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So that's not gonna help. Okay, now I have lost my train a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Subtle shift.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to ADHD.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, hey, we're in this together.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:I have the paper. That's what's helping me.
SPEAKER_01:So making just little tiny changes, like I talked about it. Is it a low-hanging fruit? Is it something that's really seriously impacting your life that you need to start changing? But even if it's at work or your relationship, you can't change at all. You you something really subtle, something small where you feel like you can handle this, it's easier. And then you can feel some success. You can see, okay, I did this and it worked, or I did this and it didn't work, so we try something else. Because that's another kind of idea I've been playing with is experiments, terming coaching things as experiments so it doesn't feel so heavy. So the subtle shift is finding little things that work now to move me a little bit forward in this one area. Okay. Okay. And if it's um looking at uh looking more at yourself, a lot of times it has to do with some of the basic questions. Do I need to eat? Do I need to drink water? Do I need to go outside and move my body? Do I need to rest? And those sound really overly simple at times. But uh you may find that in particular one of them really helps. Maybe having certain snacks, maybe um taking kind of like these meditative naps I've been doing, where um I realize that in the afternoon, because this is part of me learning how not to be in a certain structure from a system. Yeah. Um it's okay sometimes to just go. I just go lay down somewhere and I listen to like some sort of either meditative music or something like that. I set a timer so I'm not out on the couch all day. And sometimes I sleep and sometimes I read, and sometimes I actually just check out, you know, whether it's a guided meditation that's actually guiding me in meditation, or it's just one one of some like some soft music without words or nature music or whatever. Um, really allowing that time to regroup, refresh. So that's just like a little subtle thing. And then I've learned that sometimes I'm able to do that for a much shorter period when I really need, like you talked about, being overstimulated. So I've had a busy day, I'm out with a lot of people, being able to take that little vacation, that little rest in your brain to reset because we can get very, very overstimulated.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so even just noticing different cues that may tell us we need to have a small shift. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01:That's good and so what works for you and what works for your friend or somebody else may not work for you, or it may not work for you right now, or in this environment, or this setting, or whatever. Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So just paying attention to yourself, paying attention and just small things.
SPEAKER_01:Um, because I can make lists till the end of time. Like if you've ever seen those things, like making a list is a whole other hobby. No, it's like I have this is the one I found. It's uh it's one line a day. It's a five year, I guess you're supposed to like maybe put a meditation or whatever. But um I find it useful when I remember to use it to write down what I've done, especially like in the work situation. Okay, yeah, I did a podcast, I had a call with this person. Right. Because at the end of the day, otherwise, I feel like I know I've done something, but like I can't remember what I've done. Right. And I feel like I haven't done anything. And so then I can pick this up and be like, oh, okay, I did these things. Yeah. Yeah. And so this for me has been helpful. I don't do it every day. I forget or I don't have it or sure, sure. Yeah. But you know, especially where it's like, yeah, I worked on this and I worked, I did do, I did do something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So instead of making a list of to-dos, it's this is what I have done. But sure, but this is an intentional practice of reminding yourself of what you did do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I was on the podcast with Candace. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I did this. Right. You know, that's I love that. That's really cool. I did something. Mm-hmm.
unknown:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Super tangible shift. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. Um, if someone's listening and they're resonating with some things that we're talking about, a lot of things that we're talking about, what would your encouragement be? And what would you say their first step would be? Like how what what first step would you recommend?
SPEAKER_01:My first step is if you're listening and something is resonating you, whether it's a, I don't know, how you process a journal, a walk, calling somebody up, what is it that resonated with you? What did we just talk about that just set like light vulture fireworks off in your brain? Um, and then spend some real time thinking about were these positive reactions, were these negative, were they both? It was probably both. The more you think about it, are you like, I remember in fifth grade, I I remember at home. I like what because you're gonna find probably that all of a sudden all these little blocks are gonna start falling in place, or however you visually want to look at it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um and starting there, and what is this telling you? And and and does this helping you understand things? And then is whatever we're talking about, is this this could be something that you feel like you got under control? Great. Sure. Congratulate yourself. That's perfect. Yeah, yeah. Um but what are the other areas? Not trying to take, you know, take you can take one of those online tests, but if you score on a bunch of them, you're not gonna fix them all right now. So so what is resonating with you and doing some real thinking about it and what you've done, what helps? Um and then you know, I offer short fixes. Uh quick win coaching, really, really working on let's just do the one thing, just figure this one thing out. So the card deck, some of the stuff that offer, some of the stuff that I'm working on is really let's let's figure out the one thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I love that. What would you say are like one or two things if somebody has an ADHD diagnosis that they should do to take care of themselves well?
SPEAKER_01:I I I would say learning how to check in with yourself. Okay, it can be hard. It can be something we don't know how to do or we don't have permission to do. But but but taking care of yourself has to be what you need. So back to like those basic needs, right? Basic needs. Um what's really really heavy on you right now and what's one of the little things you could do about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Or ask for help about it. Because you don't have to have all I mean, somewhere inside you, you probably have all the answers, but maybe you need help accessing them, you know, figuring out what they are.
SPEAKER_00:That's good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So how would somebody check in with themselves?
SPEAKER_01:What would you recommend? Well, so you can if you're if you're someone who likes to meditate or do breathing exercises, just finding a quiet place and breathing into it and letting yourself be. If you like to journal or write, you could you could do that. You could ask yourself some questions. What is bothering me? You know, there's the things where you keep asking why five times. Yeah. Or what now? Um, maybe talking to somebody, maybe there's somebody you trust who either is new to you and comes from a clean slate or somebody who's been around who you trust who could be able to say, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Right, right. Talking to somebody. Um finding your way, how do you access yourself? And if it's something you're not used to doing, this this can take some time and this can take some practice. Right. Maybe it is a therapist, maybe it is a coach, maybe it is a bunch of things. Yeah. Maybe it's reading a book, maybe it is going and getting something or listening to a podcast or some information specifically about it just to get more information for you for right now. So you kind of see the bigger picture.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just take, I mean, yeah, kind of give yourself space to explain for that. Yeah, yeah. Especially like you said, especially if you've never really done that before. And so really slowing down so you can notice some of these patterns and track some of these difficulties. Yeah, yeah. And it doesn't have to be an hour of meditating.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe it's just I'm gonna get a glass of water or coffee or whatever. Right. And I'm just gonna sit outside, I'm gonna set a timer for five minutes, and I'm just for five minutes, I'm just gonna see what comes up. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No, that's really good. Well, so you mentioned doing sort of your meditative um practice. Is there anything else that you do to take care of yourself personally?
SPEAKER_01:Um I'm working on some basic parameters for my life. So, number one is I'm learning and I'm working on setting up my work time, looking at um a sprint, what I call a sprint. So instead of having a project and it's this big project and this uh, you know, vague whatever, like my sprint this week, my three days, what is the thing that I'm working on? And getting better at realizing I can do this amount and then on a time I have. And it's not this list of 25 things, it's right, I'm working on this and these three things on this. And that's one. Yeah. The other thing is like I mentioned when I taught, I was told when to eat. And so eating, especially with ADHD, you can get into this, like, I don't know what to eat. Like, you forget. So I'm working on it, and I'm not a nutritionist, so some nutritionists may get mad. But this idea of I'm I'm trying to get myself to if nothing else, eat three meals a day.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And the meals have to have like a protein, a carb, and a fat and a fruit or vegetable. Like not into this whole bit thing, like can we just eat three meals a day? Right. And anything else I eat, whatever. But if I don't remember to eat, like I haven't eaten breakfast yet because I didn't, and it's almost 10 o'clock my time. Like it spirals through the day. Right, right, right. Because that's basic needs. Yeah. The day that I do this, I feel it and I notice it. Yeah. And the weeks that I do that, I feel it and I notice it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. And so just starting simple. Like I know I need three meals and I need to look like this.
SPEAKER_01:And yeah, three meals, or just one. Just is it right? What do you feel is the most important in your every oh breakfast is the most important today? But maybe it's not for you. Exactly. Yeah. Something else.
SPEAKER_00:So just okay, just one meal. Right. Yeah. Okay. That's really good. I think that's really good that people are hearing that. Because I I mean, kind of going back to what you said, I think it's easy for people to minimize how important those things are, but they have a big impact on us, especially over time. Um yeah. Yeah. Especially if, like you said, if you've been in a structure where it made sense when to eat and how to eat and all the things, if you don't have that anymore, it's harder to, it feels overwhelming to know how to implement it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And my husband, he always cut up the vegetables and the fruit for our lunches. Right. Who's doing it?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. Yeah. Right, right. So it's harder to access that.
SPEAKER_01:Uh-huh. Yeah. And so for people who this isn't a problem, they're like, what's your problem?
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah. Well, you have other problems, thank you. This is my my my struggle right now. Your struggles are different. Yeah. There you go. There's a rant. There's another rant in there, I think.
unknown:No, no, no.
SPEAKER_01:We're keeping it nice. We're keeping it in supposed way.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh. Well, thank you so much. Um, people are just gonna love this conversation. I know there's a lot of people that uh will just eat this up. I think it's good encouraging and helpful. And again, like you're just you're breaking it down to make it tangible and and things that people can easily implement. Like you said, the hacks. Um, so how can we find you if somebody's interested in even working with you? Like, how can they do that? In what capacity can they do that?
SPEAKER_01:Um on Instagram, adhd.holistically, um, go to my website, adhdholistically.com, um, and sign up and um you'll get some 30 quick and easy hacks for free and some information about the quick win coaching. It also has the information about the card deck and some of the places I'm starting to go. I'm trying to get out in the community a little bit more and do things. Um then as I put more things out there and just newsletters and blogs and just little bits of information, and then there's also a way of like if if there's something that I can help design for you or for your business or for for whatever. I mean, I'm ADHD. I'm I'm open to anything.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. Love it, love it. And then wait for me to make the card deck for the teens.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah, yeah. So get over on the website, get on Instagram, you can follow her there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and yeah, I mean, I I think I think get on my mailing list is the best way just to an Instagram to find out everything that I'm doing.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And I I just love that, I mean, you're living this life out, right? Like you, you know, which I think can be really helpful. Like you get it, you totally get it. And so um I think that I think that, I mean, again, it just helps us to feel less alone when we're going through something like this, or when we're sort of kind of grasping at what is going on with me to hear somebody like yourself that you know, you didn't get diagnosed until later in life as well. And this is something you've been working with forever. So it happens, it happens, people, and that's okay. Um, so yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for yeah, coming on, and I'm so excited to know you and follow you, follow along with you, and I'm glad we have this resource now.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much. This has been great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Did you catch my aha moment in there? Y'all, I literally realized right in the middle of this conversation that what I've been calling anger issues for years was actually ADHD all along. Humans are so complex. What looks like one thing on the surface can often be something entirely different underneath. That's why it's so important to stay curious, to be open, to exploring what's really going on, to advocate for yourself, and to seek out professionals who can help guide that journey. And remember, life changes. Strategies that may have worked for you five years ago, or even last month, might not serve you now. That doesn't mean you're failing. It just means it's time to gently shift, to adjust, to experiment with new tools, and that can be transformational. Be sure to check out the show notes where you'll find links to Dr. Jennifer's. Website and the amazing SOS ADHD card deck. You can also sign up for her mailing list and grab her resource 30 quick and easy hacks for ADHD. Trust me, you do not want to miss that. And again, let's just be curious. Let's notice what's serving us and what's not serving us well in these areas, and be willing to be flexible and kind to yourself in the process. The information included in this podcast does not replace that of your own professional therapy. If you believe you're in need of professional assistance, please reach out to the medical community in your area. The Couch Next Door with Candace Fraser was created by me, Candace Fraser, graphics by Jason Frasier, music by Josh Bissell. You can find the show notes and affiliate links on CandaceFrasierLPC.com. Click on the tab Podcast and you'll find all podcast-related content there. I'd love to connect with you on Instagram. Find me at Candace Fraser LPC. Give the show a rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. This really helps get the show to more listeners in the world, and I would be so grateful to see what you all are loving. Until next time, show kindness to yourself and those around you.
